Fack Youk has a post up about what went wrong with Chien-Ming Wang. I was originally just going to comment there, but I had some issues getting it to take and figured, why not put it here? So read the post, then come back and this will make more sense. My response is:
“There’s also the major problem of whether the internal mechanics of his shoulder were at issue. The sinker requires a great deal of pronation (turning the thumb down at release or “pouring out the can”). Go ahead and try this at home and you’ll feel the head of the humerus (the bone of the upper arm, where it meets the shoulder) rotating inward. Studies by Jim Andrews and his team have shown that pitchers tend to have an anatomical change called “humeral retroversion” - very simply, their bone changes to accomodate the demands of pitching. Combine changed anatomy with damaged biology and altered mechanics and things get bad quickly.
Stunningly, the Yankees have never done a biomechanical analysis of the type Andrews offers at his Birmingham facility - not just on Wang, but on ANY of their pitchers. Some pitchers, like Sabathia, have had this done before coming to the Yankees. As far as I know, no team has asked Wang or any other pitcher to have one of these analysis done as part of a condition of contract. I’m not sure it’s “legal” in the sense that a team could even ask for it, but then we’d have to ask the question, why not? Why would a team commit millions of dollars to a pitcher, especially a risky pitcher, without having this kind of information?”
(Should I quote myself? I don’t know, but that’s what I was going to put in comments.)
Wang and Brandon Webb are two very interesting cases. They’re similar pitchers, in pitch type at least, and have similar shoulder issues. Al Leiter made the point on MLB Network that a sinkerballer might get some positive effect from shoulder surgery. I have no idea on that and I’m not sure Al does either, but he knows more about sinkers and surgery than I do, so it’s another thing to watch.
Well played, anyone else who posts that gets a negative 30.
Regarding the Wang, very insightful and I love that information in a real time context. Does the sports injury book site cases like this or is it most medical mumbo jumbo?
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After speaking with Tommy Bennett, and thinking about this for the past 24 hours, I realized my anger was misplaced on him. His comment was merely the trigger that set me off and angered me to send you an email. Really, my problem is with Will Carroll and your editors that ALLOWED such a horrifically racist title to publish. The more I've thought about this, the more I'm disappointed and angered by this. The fact that I have to (a) explain this is and (b) the title is still there on your web site, is a testimony to the blatant racist ignorance of your editorial staff.
If this article was about David Wright, would the title been "Wright Wrong"? Of course not. In fact, you had an article this past summer about David Wright's drop in home run numbers. I do not remember the title, but I can confidently say it was not "Wright Wrong". However, since Chien Ming Wang is of Asian decent, Will Carroll decides to title his article, that is clearly grammatically incorrect, yet CLEARLY a play on an Asian accent, as many Asian immigrants have trouble annunciation the letter 'R', since that letter does not exist in many Asian languages. I was born in this country, but am of Korean-American descent. But when I read that title "Wang-Wrong", I cringed and am immediately reminded of other horribly inappropriate racist stereotypes
* the Donger from 16-Candles,
* this ad campaign from Abercrombie and Fitch that was immediately panned, which they ultimately apologized for: http://articles.sfgate.com/2002-04-18/news/17540580_1_abercrombie-fitch-t-shirt-wong-brothers-laundry-service, or when
* Shaquille O'Neal who slurred Yao Ming: http://asianweek.com/2003_01_03/sports_yaoming.html.
* We can go ahead and add Will Carroll's "Wang Wrong" article title to these examples
I read many sports sites and blogs that run the gamut from locker-room humor (barstoolsports), to mainstream media (espn) to intellectually stimulating (bp). I would expect inappropriate racist rumor that is the toxic underbelly of society from the locker-room humor sites. That's what they do, and that is who they are, that is part of their schtick. I would never expect it from ESPN since their readership is too wide as they would get murdered in the media for such a misstep. I frankly NEVER expected it out of BP because i figured you were to smart for this. Now, i'm dumbfounded by the fact that (a) it was there, and (b) i have to lecture and explain how this is offensive...this is MINDBOGGLING, why are you defending this? And how can you defend that you should keep my $35?
If this was a title offensive to black-americans, we are not having this conversations because you would be so scared of having Al Sharpton up your ass. Or, again, more relevent to bp, if it was a title offensive to transgendered individuals, we again, are not having this conversation because you are already sensitive to that matter. Well your insensitivity to my race is absolutely disgusting. I'm guessing the BP staff is predominately made up of white males. I work on wall-street. Wall street was once predominately white males back in the 80's, but made the conscious effort to diversify. Some of the sexist/racist stories of the trading floor of the 80's remind me of what I'm dealing with in this instance. Perhaps BP should consider diversifying, I'm sure Will Carroll has not come across very many Asian-Americans living in Indianapolis. I grew up in the midwest, I know what its like.
You can do nothing to have me continue with BP. Please immediately refund my subscription. When I signed up, I did not expect to read this racist garbage that offends my heritage, my culture, my parents. Please immediately retract or change that title of that Will Carroll article AND issue an apology on the website. If you do not feel all 3 of these measures are appropriate, I will continue to pursue this issue with relevant interests groups who agree with my position. I hope my anger and determination on this matter is clear in this email. I'm pissed that this happened, and I'm even more pissed I have to point out your ignorance to you. I am not going away.
I am available at ANYTIME to have another live conversation with anyone on this matter. I appreciate Tommy Bennett for taking the time to speak with me. He is mature beyond his years. My anger was misplaced on him. Although he was perpetuating a horrible racists article title, and was the trigger for my anger that set the email, the real crux of the problem is the title of the article, your editor letting is slide, and your current defense of the article in its appropriateness.
I've read this four times now and fail to see how 'Wang Wrong' is a play on an occasional Asian inability to pronounce "r's". What is the title mocking??
I second that. I mean is the title supposedly a play on "Rang Wrong"? Or "Wang Wong?" Seems like Carroll just threw out something that had two w's pronounced two different ways that had nothing to do with Wang being Asian.
No one gets down and Wang Chungs anymore? Seriously people its a reference to an 80's pop masterpiece. Now if you'll excuse me I have to go Spin Right Round Baby Right Round.
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So if Wang were white, are you telling me this article would be titled Wang Wrong? If they did an article on Joel Zumaya's recent injury history, is 'Zumaya Wrong' in play? In fact, '[insert any other non-asian pitchers name here] Wrong' a candidate for an article title? Ofcourse its not.
Wang Wrong has everything to do with him being Asian. no way that title gets published if he is white. You are kidding yourself and are totally ignorant if you think otherwise.
"So if Wang were white, are you telling me this article would be titled Wang Wrong?"
Erm, if Wang were white, it's a bit less likely his surname would be Wang. And if indeed he were white and his name was still pronounced "Wong", then sure, the rhyming title would work fine.
"If they did an article on Joel Zumaya's recent injury history, is 'Zumaya Wrong' in play?"
If Zumaya rhymed with "wrong", then sure, I think that would be an option.
"Wang Wrong has everything to do with him being Asian."
It has everything to do with his name being "Wang".
Joe D, 1 big problem with your comment.. WANG does not rhyme with WRONG. what are talking about?? either way you pronounce it, with the long or short 'a', it doesnt' rhyme!!! Wang has an "a", wrong has an "o". IT DOESN'T RHYME! some else talks about how its a word that starts with a w, but its not even alliteration, all it is, is 2 words both with a W, that just brings about offensive asian imagery similar to Shaquille Oneal's rant of "wang wong ching chang chong" to Yao Ming.
I dont expect you to understand and appreciate the history of racist and offensive undertones here. You've never been called a chink or gook or watched somebody make fun of your parents for having an accent. Perhaps you, in the silence of your own thoughts, they these thoughts not exist. But in general society, as an Asian American I can guarantee you they exist, and those undertones existed in this article title. For you to still ignore this after its been pointed out to you is COMPLETE IGNORANCE and a lack of sensitively to this history.
I'm sure his intent was to be funny, cleaver, etc. but the end product was something that was offensive and out of bounds, particularly to Asian Americans. Maybe some will be offended, maybe some will not. I will tell u but general standards, I am one of THE "whitest"/Americanized Asian-Americans you will ever meet, and I was pissed off as hell when i read that title and subsequent comment.
Before going on this email tirade, I sent it to a range of friends, white guys i work with, asians i know, african-american i went to college with, all of which who agreed there IS a racial undertone. If you dont see that, then your ignorance is your bliss
Wait a sec, doesn't Wang rhyme with wrong? Seriously, that is how I have heard it- pronounced like "wong". It's really just a point of clarification, since I think cttigers has a legitimate beef (if unpleasant way of putting it). Not necessarily in the sense of the R/L pronunciation of some SE Asian cultures, but in the lack of a verb in the construction. You can practically hear Micky Rooney's Mr. Yunioshi shouting "Wang Wrong!" with his oversized buck teeth. It's not a stretch to hear bigotry in the original title, even if it is obviously unintended.
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JoeD another point, just because something rhymes, does not absolve it from being offensive. Racist offensives terms that are meant to belittle, often times rhyme. thinking about some of the offensive horrible things i've heard (not just towards asians, but blacks, gays, any minority group), those slurs can be attempts at humor that rhyme.
An attempt to rhyme is NOT a justification for being racially offensive.
The Chinaman is not the issue here, Dude! I'm talking about drawing a line in the sand, Dude. Across this line you do not - also, Dude, "Chinaman" is NOT the preferred nomenclature, uhh... "Asian-American," please.
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mbithd, I have no idea what you are possibly referring to, aside from being an overtly racist offensive @ss. Its because of people like you, why this issue needs to be called out and raised. It is also why BP needs to issue an apology as they promote (admittedly, likely unintentionally), racists stero-types, and your case, outright unadulterated ignorance and hate.
i would never be one to defend that bag of hot air that is will carroll, but i still don't get it. and not from a 'im not sensitive enough' pov. the original title was wang wrong? if so, wheres the asian connection?
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RobDeer, Yadner has one well written perspective on the asian connection: "but in the lack of a verb in the construction. You can practically hear Micky Rooney's Mr. Yunioshi shouting "Wang Wrong!" with his oversized buck teeth. It's not a stretch to hear bigotry in the original title, even if it is obviously unintended."
To further this point, if this was an article about David Wright, it would be titled something along the lines of "What is Wrong with Wright?". or "Wright is Wrong". It would have been a proper sentence construction. But because Wang is asian, intentionally or not, Will Carroll decides to go with the offensive title "Wang Wrong".
I appreciate this maybe not immediately obvious to you. Its not going to be cause you probably don't have to deal with it. but its painfully obvious to me, as well as other non-Asians I have spoken to on this matter, as well as 2 other commentators in this space.
As jenningsjason says, if the comment offends, then it is offensive, by definition.
Unless of course, you pronounce Wang's name correctly. In which case "Wang" and "Wrong" are a rhyme or ridiculously close to it. Then it becomes painfully apparent it was a play on words, and not a poke on Wang's race.
I could easily see an unfiltered post titled "Wright Wrong" or a similar play on words, if it was similarly about a flaw in his health or mechanics. To posit without question that such a title would never exist is to create a straw man, and one that isn't sturdy at all, to boot.
An article entitled "Long Wrong" or "Vogelsong Wrong" is really that inconceivable to you?
To point out that the article title is potentially offensive because of other, possible meanings/implications is one thing. But you go a few steps further:
I pointed out earlier what I felt was a likely *reason* for the title, never once disagreeing that your interpretation was one some people could take away from it. Based on that one post, you immediately concluded I was completely ignorant, and lived in the silence of my own thoughts.
Which, of course, is a fantastic example of the sort of knee-jerk, overzealous, reactionary conclusion generation that bigots and racists are typically most guilty of.
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JoeD another point, just because something rhymes, does not absolve it from being offensive. Racist offensives terms that are meant to belittle, often times rhyme. thinking about some of the offensive horrible things i've heard (not just towards asians, but blacks, gays, any minority group), those slurs can be attempts at humor that rhyme.
An attempt to rhyme is NOT a justification for being racially offensive.
"JoeD another point, just because something rhymes, does not absolve it from being offensive."
It does however, absolve it from necessarily being:
* "...CLEARLY a play on an Asian accent."
* "blatant racist ignorance"
* directly comparable to any of the examples of racism you cited earlier, including Shaq's idiocy.
...which are all claims you made earlier.
Are you going to apologize to Will Carroll as you expect BP to apologize to you?
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So BP writes an offensive title to an article with racial undertones that (looks you agree), can be easily made. I point it out to them, and after a few emails and 2 phone conversations, I ask for 1) a refund, 2) a title change and 3) an apology. initally i'm denied all 3. I continue to pursue this and take my issue to the comments section since they continue to take the stances that the title was NOT offensive and had NO offensive racial undertones, and I'm supposed to apologize for being offended by a racially offensive title?
Joe D, one of the plethora of reasons why this is offensive, is because it IS a play on an Asian accent. whether he intentionally did this or not is debatable (i would agree he probably did not have this intent). But yes, it is clearly a play on an Asian accent, probably done by accident. As yadner says "You can practically hear Micky Rooney's Mr. Yunioshi shouting "Wang Wrong!". ITS A CLEAR PLAY ON AN ASIAN ACCENT.
the biggest problem i have is BP refusal for an apology on this matter, and their initial stance (which is still currently their stance after my 30 min conversation with KG) that the title is NOT offensive, and that there are no racial undertones to the article. Obviously, i feel this is ridiculous. To continue to ignore the racial undertones, and to refuse to issue an apology for the racist undertones in that title is 100% 'blantant racist ignorance' Writing that title with total disregard for any raminfications was pure ignorance in its truest form.
This title is 100% directly comparable to what i pointed out earlier. Sure, some of the offenses are more eggregious than others, but yes, this is comparable.
JoeD, also to clear up somethign in an early post, i was not suggesting you have racists thoughts in the silence of your own head. I had a grammatical error which made the sentence read funny, and you misread what i meant. what i was suggesting is that in the silence of your own head, you probably do NOT have these racists thoughts, which is why you did not immediately come to the same conclusions that I did. and i would expect you to either, since you havent had to deal with any of these issues before.
I apologize to you for that confusion. I was not suggesting you have racists thoughts in your own head. to the contrary, I was trying to say the exact opposite point. but a fast typing and a typeo made that sentence come out as jibberish.
However, to BP and Will Carroll, i certainly owe NO apology to, and am waiting Will Carroll's public apology on this issue. An attempt at rhyming does not absolve it from necessarily being 1. a clear play on an asian accent, 2. blatant racist ignorance nor 3. comparable to what i pointed out. (and we can debate what is the 'proper' annunciation of Wang's last name - which to say it DOES rhyme is a stretch at best. even in my 30 minute conversation with KG, we both were pronouncing it with the long 'a')
1. A lot of titles omit a verb (e.g. Edwin Jackson Arb-Dodge)
2. A lot of titles use alliteration (Aroldis Chapman: D-Day? Done Deal? De-Valued?)
This did both. To conclude that it had racial undertones is a huuuuuuuge stretch. How is it any different from the unfiltered headline from Jan 17th "Lincecum Lottery"?
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Lol, Wang Wrong is NOT alliteration. Wang starts with a 'w' sound, Wrong starts with an 'r' sound. Alliteration is not based on the letter, its based on the sound.
If you can't see the racial undertones after all i've written, then i can't help you with your own ignorance, but perhaps I can help you with your understanding and comprehension of the English language.
And let's also not forget... let's NOT forget, Dude... that keeping wildlife, uhhh... an amphibious rodent, for... uhhh, you know, domestic... within the city... that ain't legal either.
Maybe you should learn what "alliteration" is before you start tossing around such large words. LOL! Perhaps you do not see it because of your poor reading comprehension skills. Maybe take a few more courses at your local 2-year college and you'll get there.
Best of luck to you in your endeavors in life. I'll tip you better next time you service my car.
1. "if the comment offends, then it is offensive, by definition"
Um, yeah, but whether if offends is totally beside the point. (If you called me a guy over 6 feet and I was offended, your commend would be offensive, but by no means wrong.) What we're talking about is whether it is racially or culturally insensitive. And if the comment offends, the it is not by definition racially/culturally insensitive.
2. As Joe D pointed out, there are a host of reason the post could have been titled the way it was, none of which drew from the Asian stereotype. You haven't provided any compelling reason to conclude it was the stereotype reason rather than any of the other reasons. To raise the charge that you have you're going to have to have a bit force to your argument.
I'm Asian, and I have no idea what all the fuss is about.
Way to be oversensitive dude.
I'm well aware of all the stereotypes and all that jazz, trust me, but this is the wrong thing to try and make a point about.
The letter "R" does exist in the Japanese language, by the way. Ra/Ri/Ru/Re/Ro. It's just that the L and the R are pronounced similarly, hence the carryover to English.
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Everybody Wang Wrong tonight! Everybody have fun tonight!
Oh dear god...
Well played, anyone else who posts that gets a negative 30.
Regarding the Wang, very insightful and I love that information in a real time context. Does the sports injury book site cases like this or is it most medical mumbo jumbo?
Mumbo jumbo, if you call explaining what those injuries are and what to do in those cases mumbo jumbo.
To Live and Die and Pronate ...
(yep, its a reach)
*Face palm*
wtf is this? seriously? from bp staff???