I know it happens all the time, but it’s really freaking stupid every single time. This is what the creation of the closer position has wrought: teams losing games, frequently, without using their best reliever, for no reason other than the misguided notion that getting three outs is their role, and getting four isn’t.
(For that matter, you also have Ron Mahay. Why did you acquire him if not to have him face Jim Thome in the eighth inning of a one-run game? Ron Gardenhire lost the division last year for want of a similar clue and Jose Mijares.)
There were four possible correct options here...
1) Leave Meche in to start/finish the inning. He'd only thrown 91 pitches.
2) Bring in Cruz. Why else do you have him?
3) Bring in Mahay. Why else do you have him?
4) Bring in Soria.
True -- but Lou sure ain't perfect. Did you see him last night put in Gathright as a defensive sub for Fukudome, instead of replacing Bradley and sliding Fukudome to right? When I saw The Fragile One's awkward tumble after trying to catch that sinking liner in the ninth, endangering both the Cubs' lead and their season, my life passed before my eyes. Lou better learn a lesson from that, and quick.
I didn't get that either - Fukudome is arguably the best fielder of the three. I guess it could say something about Lou's confidence in Fukudome - Kosuke would have led off the top of the 10th had the game continued somehow, and perhaps he was pulling him after an 0-for-4 figuring he'd have a better chance for a hit in that situation with someone else. On the other hand, why is he even thinking that far ahead with a three-run lead when he could just pinch-hit for Kosuke *if* the moment somehow arose? It was weird. I thought only LaRussa overthought that much.
right after I'd read that Gregg was named closer, I thought that was a cool blessing in disguise. Leave the "save situation" crap for Gregg, and use Marmol in the actual high leverage innings.
That the Cubs were going to lock Marmol into the 9th instead of having him available whenever they really needed a K like last year was one reason I thought the Cubs were worse than last year. I think most Cubs fans that pay attention were pretty happy that it didn't happen (even though they're still not as good since Wood's better than Gregg, it's not the enormous difference of locking Marmol into the 9th).
The Farns has been a whipping boy of the White Sox for years. I know I'm not the only one at the Cell who cheers when the other team puts him in a close game. Lifetime ERA against the Sox over 8, with 10 HRs allowed in 26 and 2/3 IP.
Fredi Gonzalez: Hanley Ramirez, best hitter on the team and probably second in the NL comes up for his first at bat in the three hole. His first at bat of the season. Sac Bunt. Awesome.
There's smart ball and then there is small ball, and that sure ain't smart ball. I know the Marlins are going for pitching and defense, but that shouldn't allow Fredi to create his own low scoring games by repressing his offense stars.
Are the Marlins indeed preaching the "pitching and defense" mantra? I don't know; you are probably more familiar with that market than me. One thing is for sure, though: If there is a fireable offense in Miami, it's trying to play small (minded) ball when you have a lineup tailor-made for gorilla ball. Somebody please get the Marlins' infield into Earl Weaver's hands...pronto!
It's also possible that Gonzalez was trying to "send a message" to his players by having the face of the franchise take one for the team on opening day. I'm not saying that this makes it OK or defensible; just pointing out that there may have been a non-strategic motive for the sac bunt.
Eh, not really. They are saying they are trying to make the defense better. Which they are with Bonifacio at third and switching Cantu to first which he can handle, plus realigning the outfield and putting Maybin in.
But they are still a HR offense, and playing for one run in the first inning with the best hitter in the division up makes no sense to me.
In his career Kyle Farnsworth has given up 112 home runs in 735 innings. For this he has earned 22 million dollars, not counting the 9 million Kansas City is going to pay him this and next year.
As a White Sox fan I couldn't have been happier to see Farnsworth in the 8th. We owned him when he was on the cubs, believe we got him last year once with the yanks, god I love the guy. Not that ozzie and kenny are much smarter (leadoff hitter - Wise) but hey I'll take it. Fun game, just had so much confidence seeing farnsworth still pitching when Thome came up. Joe, when we get rid of Wise you can redo your central picks, until then its ok.
Even with Wise, Ozzie's a lot smarter; no way does he let, say, Dotel pitch to someone like Thome in that situation.
He brings in his lefty every time.
As for Williams, he's the first or 2nd best gm in the division behind only perhaps the Twins gm
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Face it JOe, picking the Sox as the 27th best team in the majors is absolutely ridiculous - especially when they have better starting pitching and a better bullpen that the Indians who you put at #11. Thome his aging, but Giambi is not. Jocular.
Williams 7
Shapiro 1
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It's his bias toward Beane and his progeny because they (purport to) use some of the tools similar to which this site espouses. Shapirio has fielded ONE playoff team and he's a genius; and he's finished ahead of Ken Williams ONCE. And that fact is never addressed.
Most managers and a lot of general managers are pretty obviously selected via the 'good ol' boy' program and not based on their qualifications or capabilities. Dusty Baker is another travesty of a manager, yet somehow year after year finds a job. In this recession, let's fire the people who DESERVE to be fired and hire some new blood.
Gardenhire in Minn. is equally guilty. How else can you justify starting Carlos Gomez over Delmon Young? One does nothing but play defense and steal bases and the other is a decent hitter with potential star upside. Disgraceful.
And that makes for a perfect 4th OF/late inning replacement. Gomez has minimal upside and his learning curve right now is an offensive black hole. He can't get on base, has minimal power, strikes out a TON for a 'speedy slap-hitter' and does project to improve too drastically.
Young still has .300/.380/.500 upside and while his defense is nothing special, that's *exactly* what the Twins need in their lineup.
Young has put up a .732 OPS in his last 1,304 plate appearances. His defense in left field is sub par. He's far from a lock to start.
Gomez is an excellent defender in center. Span put up a strong OBP last season, which is something the Twins dearly need from their leadoff hitter and in their line-up in general, has looked good the first couple games this season, and is a much better defender than Young.
It's Cuddyer and Young that are the similar players, combined with Kubel at DH. The Twins plan on rotating their five outfielders among four positions until the problem sorts itself out. I don't see where this is a crime. The shine is coming off Young with each passing season.
And Young's 90th percentile PECOTA forecast is .317/.361/.485. Where on Earth are you getting .380 OBP upside from? Young has never been a patient hitter.
Farnsy is 6'4, in better shape than anyone else on the club, throws 95 with some movement...he's basically the Platonic ideal of a reliever. The fact that he sucks just isn't going to stop him from being hired.
Yes, and Dayton Moore said the team thought they could improve his delivery, maybe eliminate some of the homers. Still didn't justify that contract, but I remain hopeful that Farnsworth can be a useful reliever. He's certainly talented enough, if he can somehow stop hanging his slider and letting his otherwise-good fastball drift up over the middle of the plate. The experiment isn't looking too good so far.
However, even if Farnsworth were pitching well, Thome + 2 baserunners + 1 run lead + 8th inning = Mayhay or Soria. There's just no reason not to change pitchers there, except some inflexible, stubborn determination that Farnsworth is the eight-inning guy, come hell or high water or three-run-homers. It's kind of unbelievable that a guy getting paid millions of dollars to make this decision could get it so obviously wrong.
Hey, I remember him as a young starter for the Cubbies, fresh from Iowa. He's like Nuke Laloosh, with the million dollar arm and the five cent head, except he's high-strung and fragile instead of blissfully ignorant. He never was all that good and never will be.
Farnsworth had just struck out Carlos Quentin. How many times do we complain about bringing in another guy when the guy you have is throwing strikes and throwing hard?
That said, he missed the target by about a foot and grooved it right down the middle to a guy who knows exactly what to do with that pitch.
10+ years ago, Russel Branyan told a story to the Indians broadcast crew about Thome in Spring Training. Thome worked the count 3-0, stepped out of the batter's box, told Branyan, "watch this," and hit the next poor, unsuspecting get-me-over fastball for a home run.
Branyan says he knew then that he needed another year in the minors.
I heard announcers on two different games yesterday bring up the fact the nominal "closer" was actually having an easier and less-pressured inning than the guy who pitched the eighth (the "holder"?). So maybe the myth of the capital-C closer is finally starting to work its way into the mainstream.
Of course the Angels guys were also making a big deal about Arredondo "winning" ten games last year, so there's still a long way to go.
driving home from work and listening to the Tigers game on the radio, the Tigers radio guys brought up the Thome homerun off of Farnsworth and had a little laugh about it. As soon as I walked in to my apartment and turned on the Tigers game the Tigers tv guys were also laughing about Farnsworth giving up the Thome blast. The Professor was only in Detroit for a short time last season but his legacy will last forever.
Well, I can understand not using Soria, to the extent that you're still getting a righty-lefty matchup, and it's entirely plausible that in the first game of the season, a manager is uncomfortable using a reliever for more than 3 outs. It's way worse if this happens in September or October.
That said, using Farnsworth is a laughably bad idea. Why sign Cruz or Mahay if you don't use them there?
Has nothing to do with a loss being a loss. Real early in the year you don't ride your pitchers hard, including your relievers. Not that I agree with the decision.
As a Royals fan, I'm afraid we signed up for %@#%@#$ like this when we signed Farnsworth. Why, oh why, does a young GM who usually is really good at finding relief pitchers (and low OBP hitters, sigh) think he has to BURN a few million to get the Farns? Sure the guy throws mid to high 90s. But he stinks! He's never been any good! So why get him, much less pay him the big bucks. His acquisition was a mystery, and now every use of him is a potential tragedy. And gee, guess whose fantasy team had Meche in today?
I too am a Royals fan. I cringed when they brought in Farnsworth. Striking out Quentin was on Quentin. He was swinging at balls. Farnsworth was wild.
There is no way you can let Farnsworth pitch to Thome in that spot. It's the first game of the year. Everybody is fresh. This is not a second guess, either. You could ask my wife that I was incredulous that Hillman was letting Farnsworth pitch in that spot, with predictable results.
I hope this doesn't set the tone for the whole season.
Farnsworth, Ramirez and "The Netherland Nightmare" Ponson all on the same pitching staff. I was pretty excited about this season until hearing of Farnsworth getting the setup role. Look on the bright side at least Joel Peralta is gone. Could you imagine having the 2 pitchers that gave up the most HR/9 in the same bullpen?
Hillman in his stubborn stupidity just lost what's left of the Royals fan base and no telling what it did to his fragile hold on the players. You simply can't make decisions this stupid and expect to survive.
The guy had two chances to get this right and he botched both of them.
With thousands of other baseball fans, here was an email I went as Farnsworth came in...The decisions managers make is mind boggling sometimes. Bunting with Ramirez after the first two guys get hits, leaving Lee in when you can see a grapefuit welt on his pitching arm, leaving Bradley in in the outfield...
-----Original Message-----
From: , David E
Sent: Tuesday, April 07, 2009 4:21 PM
To: 'Mike'
Subject: royals
Here comes the gas can Farnsworth. He will be the Royals undoing. Where is Cruz?
Not sure if this has been mentioned yet, but today's post by Christina Kahrl on the game dissects this decision in a bit more depth, and I think there are some reasonable thought processes in it.
did anyone notice that the Detroit Tigers made essentially the same move with Brandon Lyon in the 8th inning last night - with essentially the same result? Waste a much-needed quality start from Edwin Jackson. Fire-able offense.
When you utilize pitchers based on innings, this is what you get, in the first three games of the season:
--Mike Gonzalez pitching with a four-run lead in the ninth.
--Mike Gonzalez pitching with a four-run lead in the ninth.
--Blaine Boyer and Jorge Campillo pitching with a four-...three-...two-...one-run lead...tied game...in the seventh, against a bunch of good lefties and switch-hitters.
This is progress?
The argument about getting these guys loose is circular. Relievers have elaborate routines because they've been allowed to have them. You can train that out of the class pretty quickly; I mean, this is something that's evolved over barely a generation. It's not endemic to the job of relief pitching.
Some of the commenters in this thread make it sound like batters, situations, come up at random. They don't. You can see the lefties coming up. You can see the score change. You can see the runners reaching base. If a manager can't anticipate which relievers he'll need to use in the next time through the lineup, he shouldn't have the job. (This is where the argument for playing sims comes into play.)
I pretty much dismiss the argument that the need to get pitchers warm is a barrier to sane relief usage.
You can see the lefties coming up. You don't see the runners reach base till they do, you don't see the score change till it does.
If Will told me 'yeah, relievers could warm up alot quicker than they do', I'd grant it some credence. Sorry, Mr. Sheehan, but I don't see where you have that expertise. Separate from illustrating that, your opinion about warming relievers up faster is like (superior to, but still like) mine about adjusting to starters to a 4-day rotation (my pet belief). A deeply held opinion which is yet to confront a reality which might shatter into 1,000 tiny pieces.
Bah I say. Boyer and Campillo were the THIRD and FOURTH relievers that inning. When Boyer entered, he had the tying run at the plate with the bases loaded. That moment was the epitome of high-leverage: on the road with a chance to stick the first nail in the Phillies coffin on April 8. To make matters worse, Boyer and Campillo hadn't appeared since spring training. Both of your top-flight relievers, Gonzalez and Soriano, pitched in low leverage situations the night before and were unavailable, so you're stuck trying to stop the bleeding with #5 and #6 on the bullpen depth chart. Had the better guys been available, they'd certainly have been able to be ready to be the THIRD or FOURTH relievers in the inning.
The alternative history is: Soriano or Gonzalez warm up for the 8th inning on 4/7 *just in case* while the lesser pitchers handle those last six outs. This opens the possibility that one or both of them remains available 4/8.
As for warming up, human beings can loosen up every day *to a point of no return* without any impact on their availability the next day. It doesn't take a PhD to know that these guys can stretch and soft toss to their hearts content each night if need be.
Just five days after Joe's rant against Hillman. Clearly Girardi does not read BP.com Saving your best reliever for a ninth-inning lead that never comes? Let's look at the 12 April Yankees vs. Royals game.
I haven't followed the Yankees game by game, so maybe Rivera is not available for other reasons, but looking back over their past few games:
Today the Yankees enjoy a 4-3 lead going into the bottom of the 8th at KC. LHP Damaso Marte comes in to face two LH hitters and retires them both. KC sends up a RH PH. NY goes to the bullpen for a RHP. Do they bring in the greatest RH reliever of all time with 4 outs to go? No. They bring in Jose Veras...who actually pitched last night and gave up a run. Veras walks Butler on five pitches.
OK, tying run on base, switch-hitting rookie at the plate, Girardi goes to the bullpen again. Do they bring in the greatest RH reliever of all time with 4 outs to go, a guy who absolutely kills LHB? No. How about rookie Phil Coke, a LHP? He gives up a game-tying double.
Hey, it's no longer a save situation, so they leave Coke in to give up two more runs. Ballgame over! Yankees lose! THHHHHEEEEE Yankees lose!
Hmm, why no Rivera? Let me look back through the box scores. He must have pitched last night...no, he didn't. He didn't pitch Saturday night. He DID pitch Friday night, when he threw 18 pitches in the 9th inning to protect...a 3-run lead against KC.
He also pitched an inning on Thursday...when he came in and threw 15 pitches in the ninth inning...to protect a 9-2 lead against the 5-6-7 hitters in the BAL lineup! I guess he "needed the work" because he hadn't pitched yet.
In sum, Girardi has used the best reliever in MLB to protect a 7-run lead. Knowing he wouldn't be able to use him three days in a row, he then uses him to protect a 3-run lead. Luckily, he didn't need him on Saturday. Today, with four outs to go in a 1-run game, he didn't use him.
The writeup on MLB has the headline "Yanks' bullpen can't back up Joba" and recent stories talk about how everyone in the pen is pulling for each other. How about asking the manager to use his ace properly?
I'm assuming that this botch job has probably already cost the Yanks a win. What difference will one win make in the AL East?
Not only that, but where was Edwar Ramirez in this story? Or, for that matter, anywhere else this season? He's been used just once so far, and I can't find out why.
GJHardy, I agree with everyone you stated above. I
've been fuming and seething over this move, rather, NON-move, since the moment it happened.
I watch every Yankees game and it is becoming readily apparent that Girardi, when it comes to his bullpen, clearly doesn't think things through most nights. Granted, he has a great bullpen, to be sure, but to not go to Mariano Rivera there against Billy Butler is egregious. He's worked 2 innings in six games, and was most certainly available to pitch yesterday. Instead, they went to Veras, who had pitched the previous night over a rested and ready-to-go Mo.
In terms of strategy, between Girardi and the bench coach (Tony Pena), both had to have known that Butler was still on the bench at that point and COULD have been called on to pinch hit. Why not pre-empt Trey Hillman's move by warming up Rivera once the 8th inning started just to avoid the counter-move? In that scenario it's HILLMAN that has to make the move, either leave Jacobs in to face Coke (advantage Yankees), or bring in Butler to face Rivera (advantage Yankees). Girardi was reactive instead of proactive in his in-game management and that led to the Royals having the advantage (righty hitting Brayan Pena over lefty-throwing Phil Coke - Advantage Royals).
And don't get me started on how he leaves his SP's in there a pitch or batter too long on most nights. Thats a whole 'nother ballgame.
Terry Francona gets it. He brought in Papelbon in the 8th inning recently against the Angels, and they won. Papelbon was not his usual self, but in the end, he got the four out save and the Sox won. Its proactive thinking like Francona's that have led to That Team From New England having won two of the last three World Series.
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Even worse (I thought) was the decision to go with Farnsworth rather than the guy you just gave up draft picks for in Juan Cruz.