I was thinking about Brooks Kieschnick the other day (don’t ask) and got to wondering why more teams don’t employ — or at least try to employ — two-way players, guys who can provide some utility on the mound as well as at the plate and in the field. Granted, it’s difficult enough to acquire the skills necessary to survive at the big-league level as a hitter or a pitcher, but given the modern tendency toward larger staffs (and hence smaller benches), wouldn’t it make sense for teams to try and develop another Kieschnick?
Aside from the challenges inherent in actually developing a two-way player, there is also the matter of risk, which always accompanies innovation. Perhaps, like batting the pitcher eighth, this falls into the novelty category and it will never gain widespread acceptance because if it doesn’t work (or is perceived not to work, a la Boston’s “closerless bullpen” from a few years ago), the public — not to mention the folks responsible for implementing such an idea — won’t soon hear the end of it.
It’s amazing the things that can kill innovative thinking.
Looking back further, I’m reminded of Rick Rhoden, who once served as DH for the Yankees in a June 1988 contest against the Orioles (he batted seventh, grounding to third and driving home Jay Buhner on a sac fly in two trips to the plate, both against Jeff Ballard… an excellent pitcher against whom to deploy another pitcher as DH, but that’s a story for some other day). Rhoden was — and still is (he has played golf profesionally for many years since retiring from baseball) — a tremendous athlete who might have been able to help his teams in multiple capacities had it not been for childhood osteomyelitis that resulted in limited range of motion in his right leg.
Earlier in his career, while a member of the Pirates, Rhoden teamed with Don Robinson, another good hitting pitcher. (In 1982, Pittsburgh’s pitchers outhomered its center fielders — one of the many joys of starting Omar Moreno every day).
Robinson, who battled injuries throughout his career, might also have made a good two-way player if not for his own chronic leg problems. He hit .231/.252/.330 in 665 plate appearances, knocking 13 home runs in the process. Not great, but certainly respectable for a guy who wasn’t employed to do that sort of thing. Presumably Robinson could have honed his skills and gotten better results had hitting represented a more significant part of his job.
Still, on the final day of the 1984 regular season, Robinson must have enjoyed himself in Philadelphia. In the first game of a doubleheader, he struck out the side in order in the ninth to notch his 10th save of the year. Then in the nightcap, he went 1-for-3 with an RBI while batting third and playing left field.
There may well be solid reasons for not trying to develop two-way players — the necessary skill set is hard to find and develop (guys who are good enough at either are already doing either), we might look like idiots if it doesn’t work, etc. But it seems to me that a player that can fill multiple roles with a single roster spot should have value.
Besides, having someone on the bench who might work the seventh or pinch-hit for whoever worked the seventh is just plain fun. I like to think there’s still room for that in baseball.
One strategy I enjoy is switching a pitcher to a defensive position to avoid a bad matchup and then switching him back to the mound. Especially since defensive development would seem to be easier than developing as a hitter.
This tactic is used with a fair amount of frequency in the independent leagues (where injury replacement generally aren't just a phone call away)...on Long Island for a few years Rob Cafiero, primarily a first baseman gradually transitioned into a part-time pitcher/part time bench player...while the Bridgeport Bluefish utilized pitchers in the lineup on a few occasions that I recall...I may be misremembering as well, but I was at a game where Sparky Lyle used a Left-Handed Pitcher to play third base for the last few innings of a double-header.
In the latter two cases, necessity was obviously the mother of invention; where injuries and shortened benches forced the managers' hands; but in the case of Cafiero, it was more a deliberate strategy to utilize a player to expand the roster a little bit by getting both a utility player and a low-leverage reliever in one spot.
The answer is that it's really hard. The vast majority of major league players have to devote all of their practice and training resources to one or two specific skills just to get to the majors and stay there. If they split that time 50/50 between pitching and (playing a position + hitting) they're not going to be good enough to play in the majors. That also explains why this is more common at lower levels of the sport.
The benefits of having two good specialized players outweighs the benefits of having one player trying to do two things less well. The scarcity of two-way players also means that your risk is higher - lose one two-way player and you almost certainly have to replace him with two regular players.
Switch hitters have to split their practice time between both sides of the plate, which are more similar but still require time and skill.
The player may be just a mop-up pitcher and only used in blowouts, but that still gives greater roster flexibility. We're talking about a potential replacement-level player or slightly better, so injury shouldn't be that hard to replace. It would be similar to replacing a Jerry Hairston, Jr who can play multiple positions. He's a good player if he's the last guy on the bench, but you're probably in trouble anyway if he's starting.
There are some good hitting pitchers out there, like a Micah Owings and a Carlos Zambrano or Mike Hampton. But even they aren't much better hitters than the average AAA bench player. But as a manager, if I knew I had a pitcher who could hit well and was willing, I'd use him as a late inning pinch hitter whenever necessary. But this is nothing that isn't happening already. Owings has 40 pinch hit appearances over the last 3 years. Mike hampton has had 13 PH appearences in his career, but none since 2004. Zambrano has 22 PH appearences, but they are all in the last 4 years. Of course, neither Hampton nor Zambrano is nearly the hitter that Owings is.
In the AL, its almost impossible to have a two way player. First off, you'd have to identify one. It would have to happen pre-draft. Then, that player has to be allowed to both pitch and hit and run the bases, but since AL clubs usually don't spend much time in ST on pitchers hitting and pitchers as baserunners, its awfully hard to recognize offensive talent in their pitching staff.
In the minors, its even harder. teams try and deflope either pitching or hitting, but not both, and no team wants a hitter to slow down his offensive talent by wolrking pitching, or a pitcher to slow his pitching development by working on hitting.
I remember when Michael Main was drafted by the Rangers. He claimed he wanted to go both ways, but after 35 fairly mediocre plate appearences (really only allowed because he wasn't able to pitch due to an arm injury) he was a pitcher from then on.
There are other players who transition one way or another, but those are fairly few and far between.
Big Z is qualitatively different from your other examples (plus, say, Jason Marquis), because there is very little doubt that he IS a viable pitcher as well as an occasional slugger, to put it mildly. At the same time, that's one of the things that makes him unattractive to put in a 2-way role: if you screw up a Kieschnick or Owings by having him play the field, you haven't lost much, but do that to a Zambrano, and you've lost something valuable (and probably also risked having him knock your block off, but that's a different matter).
Guys like that can be identified pre-draft, though. This year the Cardinals' second-round choice was one Rob Stock, who has gone both ways in college. So far in the minors, they've only used in him the field, not on the mound, but if they were willing to roll the dice as Geoff suggests, he'd be available.
Isn't Casey Kelley of the Red Sox still being developed as a two way player?
But yeah, I'm a big proponent of taking any organizational fodder, particularly catchers or "all glove, no hit" middle infielders, and turning them into a pitcher. That would save a lot of roster space to have a situational reliever double as a third catcher or backup middle infielder.
Kelly is still getting at-bats as a shortstop, but he's clearly going to be a pitcher in the end. I believethat, according to a pre-draft deal, Boston has given him half a season as a pitcher, then half as a hitter, which is useful because they can limit his innings while he's still developing. As he moves up, though, they'll probably get him to abandon hitting, which he hasn't shown to be any good at anyway. As somebody else pointed out, developing a major league player is incredibly difficult. Trying to develop two-in-one is probably nigh impossible.
Even Babe Ruth, who was a fantastic pitcher, gave up the mound.
Also, it seems that many teams have tried converting their "no-hit" prospects into pitchers. I can't think of a lot who have worked out, though - it's putting bad money after good in a lot of cases. Trevor Hoffman comes to mind as a successful one - the Reds converted him from shortstop, but it was pretty early in his minor league career - maybe two seasons in.
Ron Mahay, actually, is another one - he even made the majors initially as an outfielder, as a scab during the 95 season. Couldn't hit and shifted to pitching and has been relatively successful as a LOOGY.
Tim Wakefield started his career as a first baseman but didn't hit, but as a knuckleballer it's not quite the same thing as taking a guy with a great arm and converting him.
I understand that most of us (myself inclusive) are more comfortable forgetting about the labor dispute that canceled the 2004 WS, but when thinking about baseball in the context of the rest of life, I feel compelled to remember that generally strike-breaking is strike-breaking. I don't mean to invalidate all the heart-warming stories of players who only got a chance because they came in as strike-breakers, but the whole reason there was a strike is because the owners have no desire to share their wealth with the players, who are actually producing the product that customers pay to see. The player's union is far from perfect, but trying to get the players paid commensurately with what they bring in for the team (note: I am not claiming they are "worth" it in some abstract value kind of way, simply in relation to what people pay to see the players play) is exactly what it should be doing.
/rant
It's possible teams who have potential two-way talents in their systems don't want to subject these players to the injury risks experienced by both pitchers AND hitters, especially if the player may be viewed by scouts as an injury risk to begin with. If one of your potential two-way guys is a solid contributor at the plate and has a rocket for an arm, why risk messing up that rocket by subjecting him to the rigors of pitching?
If he's a solid contributor at the plate, I wouldn't risk him. But if he has no other option for reaching the major leagues because his bat is bad, I think it's worth the risk. I think it's also worth the risk to take middling pitchers and turn them into catchers, 2B/SS and even center fielders considering pitchers often shag balls in the outfield for batting practice.
Wasn't Mark Kotsay a fantastic college pitcher? He played OF on days he didn't pitch. Maybe he's been generally too injury prone to even consider letting him take the mound.
Has he said that he would refuse to pitch again in the majors if asked? I hope not. He just seemed like a likely candidate for this type of thing if it's been long enough for him to clear the control demons out of his head. His stuff was pretty good before his playoff debacle, and if he could throw strikes at anything near that level, he would be extremely valuable as a 13th pitcher who could also contribute 20-30 home runs.
"Yesterday Ankiel announced that he was quitting the pitching business altogether. It was unsettling news, but certainly not shocking. If you’ve followed the saga of Rick Ankiel, you’re far from shockable at this point. But that doesn’t make the breakdown of his career any less mysterious"
"Ankiel knew his hitting days were over, but he and his father agreed that pitching was his ticket to the majors, even if Rick wasn't necessarily content with putting down his bat for good.
"I don't think he was ever happy being a pitcher," Richard says. "He was so dominant a pitcher that pitching seemed the way to go. But was he really happy doing it? No. Anybody that knows him knows that.""
I think the scenario Richard references is both more likely and more valuable -- finding a bench player from the field who could occasionally be used as a 12th (or 13th) pitcher. Granted teams now do this once every few seasons in a 20-1 blowout, but I don't see any reason why they couldn't employ that player as a pitcher once a week or more if needed to munch a few innings here or there.
Two-word answer: Jose Canseco. Admittedly, it should be possible to find a position player to do this who doesn't cost as much, and isn't as dumb, but still.
And Canseco could hit too... and I'm not suggesting this for people who are capable with the bat.
I'm talking about the organizational fodder who otherwise would never make the major leagues for nothing more than a cup of coffee. Why not take a middling minor league starter and teach him another position, so he could be the last man out of the pen and an emergency C/2B/SS/3B/CF? Why not take a middling catcher or a good glove/no-hit position player and teach him a fastball and a changeup or slider? What's the alternative if that person's never going to make the majors and most likely will be released? By adding an extra skill to these players, then at least the organization gets some value out of the time and money spent signing and developing that player.
I mean, if we're only talking about a pitcher throwing to a batter or two a week (as some situational relievers are used) and maybe catching or playing shortstop 2-3 innings a week, even if the player is a replacement level defender, that'd still be good enough to man the position... and saves a roster spot for someone with real talent.
How about we have pitchers stop hitting altogether? It seems that if a prospective major leaguer that can pitch and bat but does not have a good chance to do well at both in the bigs should abandon one to ensure a better chance of making the bigs, wouldn't getting rid of pitchers batting make the quality of NL pitching a lot better? It would really make the game a lot better. It's an antiquated part of the game and it sucks.
I remember watching Rick Rhoden pitch for the Pirates on TV in the late '70's or early eighties (I think it was a national broadcast, but may have been a Cubs game on WGN). The reason I recall this is because the play-by-play or color guy was commenting on Rick's knee. He said it was from a childhood accident involving a "slip & slide" and a pair of scissors. Now I find that is untrue! I wish Al Gore had invented the internet earlier...
In defense of the broadcasters, I believe both are true. From the March 16, 1977, St. Petersburg Times: "...he cut his right knee badly on a pair of rubber scissors while sliding across a sheet of wet plastic in his backyard. Infection set in, and soon doctors diagnosed the complication as osteomyelitis."
The problem with Owings this year is that he was just borderline enough as a pitcher to make it into the rotation. He competed in spring with Bailey and Masset, and part of the reason he got the spot was because of what he added with the bat, both on the days he pitched and as a pinch hitter on the other days. And he did contribute in that role, doing as well as any of the Reds other pinch hitters, including a game winning home run in extra innings.
But then once his mound performance slipped to the point where he got moved to the bullpen, the pinch-hitting gig became totally unworkable. It sounds silly, but where does he sit during the game? He can't come running in from the bullpen to pinch hit. Well, I guess he could. But more critically, you don't feel free using him in one role, because you fear you might need him later in the game in the other role. And as a converted starter, he needed more time to get ready than a typical reliever. They tried a couple times having him pinch hit for the pitcher and then stay in to pitch, and that just didn't work, because he didn't get a chance to get ready as a pitcher.
In 2004 David McCarty converted himself in ST into exactly the sort of player you're talking about -- the last guy on the bench who could double as an extra LOOGY. Francona brought him into a game on April 9 with one out in the top of 9th with the Sox down 8-5 and he gave up an inherited runner and one of his own. That more or less ended the experiment. He pitched the 9th inning of a blowout loss on June 12th and got the side in order, including a K of Jayson Werth. On the last day of the season, he pitched two 1-hit innings against the O's, fanning Palmeiro, Bigbie, and Newhan (all looking). If he had started with an outing like that, the story might have been completely different.
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One strategy I enjoy is switching a pitcher to a defensive position to avoid a bad matchup and then switching him back to the mound. Especially since defensive development would seem to be easier than developing as a hitter.