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March 19, 2013

Fantasy Tiered Rankings

Catchers

by Josh Shepardson

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Today we kick off our positional tier rankings. Last offseason, Derek Carty tackled the tiers by himself; this spring, we've decided to attack them as a team. Players at each position will be divided into five tiers, represented by the number of stars.

Five-star players are the studs at their respective position. In general, they are the players that will be nabbed in the first couple of rounds of the draft, and they'll fetch auction bids in excess of $30. Four-star players are a cut below the studs at the position. They will also be earl- round selections, and they're projected to be worth more than $20 in most cases. Three-star players are the last tier in which players are projected to provide double-digit dollar value in auctions, and two-star players are projected to earn single digits in dollar value in auctions. One-star players are late round sleepers and roster placeholders. As was the case with our positional rankings series, the positional tiers aren't simply a regurgitation of the projected PECOTA values.

We retained last year's roster requirements for the positional tier series. Dollar values come from our PFM using a 12-team, standard 5x5 scoring format, with 23-man rosters and the following positions: C (2) 1B (1) 2B (1) 3B (1) SS (1) CI (1) MI (1) OF (5) UT (1) P (9). The minimum bid for players is $1, and, as we did last year, we'll allocate $180 of a $260 budget to hitters. Players needed to play in 20 games at a position to qualify there. The PFM is customizable, so if your league uses a different format, you can adjust it to match your league settings and see how it impacts players’ dollar values.

The first edition of the series tackles catchers. Let’s jump right in… 

Five Stars

Player

Team

Mixed $

AL/NL $

PA

AVG

HR

SB

RBI

R

Buster Posey

SFN

$26.97

$22.42

636

.294

20

2

84

77

Posey is in a class of his own, as his place in the exclusive top tier indicates. He ranked first among qualifying catchers in batting average and RBI last season, while finishing second at the position in runs and tied for fourth in homers. He put his gruesome ankle injury behind him, and exceeded expectations to net National League MVP honors. He is easily the best hitter in the Giants lineup, and because of that, he often sees time at first base when he's not catching. He's also one of the few catchers that slots into the heart of his club's order due to his hitting prowess. Posey is likely to go a minimum of two rounds higher than the next catcher off the board in snake drafts. 

Four Stars

Player

Team

Mixed $

AL/NL $

PA

AVG

HR

SB

RBI

R

Joe Mauer

MIN

$27.40

$22.94

655

.315

13

4

78

79

Carlos Santana

CLE

$18.64

$16.76

561

.250

20

5

71

73

Victor Martinez

DET

$17.28

$17.06

583

.293

14

1

70

64

Yadier Molina

SLN

$16.20

$17.41

550

.287

12

8

62

61

PECOTA would place Mauer in the five-star tier with Posey, but his lack of top-shelf power and the volatility in his stolen-base totals, which occasionally help offset his lower homer outputs, knocks him down a peg. Owners can bank on the career .323 hitter making a splash in batting average, and his time spent in the lineup as the first baseman or designated hitter should help him make a large impact in the category by piling up more plate appearances than the bulk of his peers at the position.

Putting too much stock in first- and second-half splits can be a mistake, but it's hard to ignore the night-and-day difference in Santana's. Santana smacked 13 of his 18 homers in the second half, and saw his batting average rise from .221 in the first half to .281 down the stretch. His second-half gains went beyond the surface-stats improvement: They reflected a significant drop in his strikeout rate, to 13.1 percent in the second half from 20.3 percent before the All-Star break. Santana has a 27-homer season under his belt, and his batting average appears to be on the rise. 

Four-Star Value Pick: Martinez comes with risk, but he also offers the promise of a sizable payoff. He spent all of last season recovering from a torn ACL that required microfracture surgery. Prior to suffering the knee injury, Martinez was a model of consistency, hitting for both average and power. He won't deal with the rigors of catching this season, playing exclusively as a designated hitter for the Tigers, and is projected to receive most of his plate appearances hitting fifth behind Prince Fielder and Miguel Cabrera, who ranked among the top 10 qualifying hitters in on-base percentage last season. That's great news for his RBI total if the bat returns to anything resembling its pre-injury form.     

Three Stars

Player

Team

Mixed $

AL/NL $

PA

AVG

HR

SB

RBI

R

Miguel Montero

ARI

$15.50

$15.55

568

.269

17

1

71

63

Matt Wieters

BAL

$16.99

$15.89

589

.259

19

1

74

67

I wrestled with where to draw the line in the three-star tier, but eventually decided that M. Montero and Wieters deserved to rank ahead of the next wave of catchers. Montero doesn't offer much upside, but he doesn't need to, as he's quietly a very solid contributor already.

Three-Star Value Pick: Calling Wieters a bargain is a bit of a stretch, but he has the upside to outproduce each of the catchers in the four-star tier. He's crushed left-handed pitching the past two seasons, but hasn't fared as well against right-handers, though he hasn’t been inept against them. Also, factor in his success against right-handed pitchers in 2009 and 2010, and you have a switch-hitting catcher that has demonstrated the ability to beat up pitchers of either handedness, as well as one who has slugged over 20 homers in each of the past two seasons. If his batting average climbs, as I expect it to, and he retains his thump, he'll challenge for a top-three ranking at catcher next year.

Two Stars

Player

Team

Mixed $

AL/NL $

PA

AVG

HR

SB

RBI

R

Wilin Rosario

COL

$11.84

$13.97

397

.261

22

3

63

50

Salvador Perez

KCA

$10.84

$12.99

535

.282

12

0

62

51

Jonathan Lucroy

MIL

$11.97

$14.09

510

.272

13

5

60

54

Jesus Montero

SEA

$8.97

$11.37

473

.261

15

1

59

50

Mike Napoli

BOS

$22.07

$19.39

495

.260

27

4

79

70

Alex Avila

DET

$10.65

$11.73

502

.254

14

2

58

59

Ryan Doumit

MIN

$11.36

$12.74

518

.264

15

1

63

55

Brian McCann

ATL

$10.22

$12.41

414

.264

17

3

57

52

J.P. Arencibia

TOR

$14.24

$14.15

495

.235

25

1

71

61

A.J. Pierzynski

TEX

$7.97

$11.13

520

.269

11

1

57

48

The two-star tier of catchers is a mix of players with question marks or flaws that prevent them from ranking higher.

In the cases of Perez and Lucroy, the question is whether they can sustain their 2012 success over the course of a full-season. Rosario has to prove that his aggressive approach won't be exploited as pitchers become more familiar with him. J. Montero ranked highly on prospect lists prior to shedding his rookie status last season, because his bat was projected to do damage in The Show. He didn't make waves with his stick last year, but he still has a ton of upside and turned in a solid season for a 22-year-old rookie.  

Napoli's batting average crashed back to earth after he posted a career-best .320 mark in 2011, but the biggest drawback here is his health, after the Red Sox’ physical revealed avascular necrosis of both hips. McCann joins Napoli in the health-question-mark department, as he’s recovering from a torn labrum in his right shoulder.

Two-star Value Pick: Avila flopped hard after a breakout 2011 season, and his average draft position suggests that drafters aren't banking on a bounce-back campaign. He probably won't repeat his 2011 season, but there are more similarities between 2011 and 2012 than many people may realize. Avila's lin- drive rate of 21.2 percent in 2011 dropped less than a full percentage point last year to 20.6 percent. He also saw his miniscule 3.5 percent pop-out percentage from 2011 drop to 1.1 percent. Pairing a high volume of line drives with a lack of popups should yield an average far better than the .243 mark he posted last year. Avila’s drop in homers from 2011 to 2012 can be explained by drop in fly-ball percentage and an increase in the number of worm burners he hit last season. If he can get back to lofting the ball more frequently, he should return to the upper teens in homers this year.     

One Star

Player

Team

Mixed $

AL/NL $

PA

AVG

HR

SB

RBI

R

Chris Iannetta

LAA

$7.25

$9.61

443

.225

16

3

55

53

Carlos Ruiz

PHI

($0.08)

$6.84

372

.266

7

2

41

40

Welington Castillo

CHN

$2.86

$7.79

375

.239

15

0

49

44

Travis d'Arnaud

NYN

$2.80

$8.31

373

.257

14

0

50

40

Russell Martin

PIT

$11.50

$13,05

537

.241

12

9

57

59

Jarrod Saltalamacchia

BOS

($0.57)

$6.20

359

.228

13

1

43

40

Yasmani Grandal

SDN

$1.00

$7.02

381

.258

10

0

45

42

John Jaso

OAK

$0.89

$6.98

400

.252

7

3

40

45

Jason Castro

HOU

$1.63

$6.64

491

.238

8

0

46

49

Rob Brantly

MIA

($4.24)

$4.81

434

.243

5

1

40

35

Tyler Flowers

CHA

$9.90

$10.86

458

.226

19

2

59

58

A.J. Ellis

LAN

$0.00

$5.72

483

.244

5

0

41

49

D'Arnaud is the sexy name in this group: He was top prospect the Blue Jays dealt to the Mets in return for R.A. Dickey, and he should get to the bigs shortly after the projected Super Two deadline. Even after his promotion, he'll likely serve in a timeshare behind the dish with John Buck, but d'Arnaud possesses the talent to put an end to that quickly and become the primary catcher. The sooner the better for fantasy owners.

PECOTA likes both Martin and Flowers more than I do. Martin turned 30 last month, and he left the hitter-friendly Yankee Stadium for PNC Park. His home and road home-run splits in his two years with Yankees aren't as large as one might expect, but the ballpark move is unfavorable nonetheless. Martin hasn't reached double digits in stolen bases since 2009, and he's a batting average drag.

Flowers can hit the ball a long way, but strikeouts are a huge problem for him. In 317 major-league plate appearances, he has struck out 33.8 percent of the time. His minor-league history doesn't offer much reason to expect improvement in that department, either: In 801 plate appearances at the Triple-A level, he was retired by strikeout 29.6 percent of the time. That's a lot of strikeouts, and the ball isn't going to leave the yard if he's not putting wood on it.

One-Star Value Pick: Castillo has had his own strikeout issues in the bigs, but unlike Flowers, his upper-minors history does suggest that he can rein in the whiffs. His power is appealing, and while his batting average won't be an asset, it may not be as bad as the ones posted by some of the other power sources at position. Castillo is currently projected to receive 60 percent of the playing time at catcher for the Cubs, and he'll have a chance to earn more than that on a rebuilding squad.       

 

43 comments have been left for this article. (Click to hide comments)

BP Comment Quick Links

boatman44

Would Yasmani Grandel have been higher without the suspension? I see him being a three star or marginal four star catcher of the future, if his power profile is legitemate.

Mar 19, 2013 02:39 AM
rating: 2
 
Tarakas

Thanks.

You're doing this late, though. You won't be done by my draft date.

Mar 19, 2013 05:57 AM
rating: -1
 
BP staff member Joe Hamrahi
BP staff

We did a lot of other things along the way too, including numerical rankings, ADP, player values, dynasty lists, chats, Twitter Q & A, etc. If you've had questions, we've always been here. We put a lot of work into everything we do. Something will always be last in line. Sorry.

Mar 19, 2013 13:04 PM
 
DanDaMan

Been really looking forward to these rankings. Any chance you roll a few out at a time? Drafting this week. Thanks,
Dan

Mar 19, 2013 05:58 AM
rating: 0
 
jparkman

Lots of people are in the same boat as DanDaMan, me included! I reupped my BP subscription specifically for the tier rankings again! I followed these last year (including value picks) to a tee last year and ran away with my league. Please let us know what we can expect.

Mar 19, 2013 06:41 AM
rating: 1
 
spundin

I draft this Sunday also so I'm sol it looks like.

Mar 19, 2013 08:12 AM
rating: 0
 
BP staff member Joe Hamrahi
BP staff

I'm curious, you rely solely on the tier rankings and nothing else?

Mar 19, 2013 13:05 PM
 
huztlers

Seems like a theme... maybe the customer is right? I don't need the rankings but it seems they should be out by now.

Mar 19, 2013 18:37 PM
rating: 0
 
BP staff member Joe Hamrahi
BP staff

Please see the comments at the bottom.

Mar 19, 2013 18:53 PM
 
BP staff member Mike Gianella
BP staff

I know they're "only" bids, but is there any chance my bid lists (posted elsewhere) would be of some help?

To Joe's point, if you have a specific question, ask. Jason, Paul, Bret, and I are always on Twitter and pretty frequently check the boards here. I recognize the value of the tier rankings but one of the great things (I think) about BP is having all of this expertise in one place. Trust me, I'm no newbie, but I pick up stuff from everyone on the fantasy staff just by reading their articles and picking their brains.

Mar 19, 2013 13:31 PM
 
DDriesen

Glad you are doing them after all. Look forward to the rest and obviously time is of the essence. Thanks again.

Mar 19, 2013 08:34 AM
rating: 0
 
dillon415

I concur with everyone else. 5 days until my draft.. if the SP tiers came out by then that would be stellar. Either way, looking good, y'all. Thanks.

Mar 19, 2013 09:46 AM
rating: 0
 
jparkman

Josh & Derek, any chance you can post the tiers and VP without too much of the analysis for the short term drafters? Thought if we had that as a guideline, it would be at your cadence to include the support pieces.

Mar 19, 2013 11:21 AM
rating: 0
 
Yatchisin
(487)

Not to pile on, but...my league drafted this past Sunday. Sure wish these happened sooner.

Mar 19, 2013 11:08 AM
rating: 0
 
BrianG

Will the rest of these be posted this week? This weekend coming up is a huge weekend for drafts and getting some of these positional tiers next week wouldn't really help as much. Will there be any cheat sheets or top 200 or 300 overall rankings? First year using this site...

Mar 19, 2013 11:20 AM
rating: 1
 
dillon415

I asked about a top 200-300 a few times.. only got a reply after emailing Paul Sporer personally. He said he would run it by the boss 7 days ago. If I have to create my own working between the positional rankings and PECOTA, that's fine.. I'd just like a heads-up on if/when it's going to happen.

Mar 19, 2013 12:21 PM
rating: 0
 
BP staff member Joe Hamrahi
BP staff

If you go here, http://www.baseballprospectus.com/article.php?articleid=19906, to Mike's auction rankings, just click on all and mixed, and you quickly get over 300 players ranked and with dollar values. He's had this posted and updated every Monday throughout the past month or so.

Mar 19, 2013 13:58 PM
 
Glenn Haywood

I too re-upped to get these and draft next week. Yikes...

Mar 19, 2013 12:45 PM
rating: 0
 
BP staff member Joe Hamrahi
BP staff

Let me make a general comment. We really appreciate your interest, and I'm sorry if the tiers weren't out before everyone's draft. I'd like EVERYTHING out immediately, but it can't happen. As I stated above, we provided a lot of other things along the way this spring that people kept asking for too...including numerical position rankings, ADP, player dollar values, dynasty lists, who to watch in spring training, chats, Twitter Q & A, etc. If you've had questions, we've been everywhere. You could always just ask. We put a ton of work into everything we do. Something will always be last in line unfortunately.

I'll post the rest of the tier schedule here soon.

Mar 19, 2013 13:12 PM
 
Behemoth

I understand that there's a whole heap of content that gets produced over the off-season, and that some of it will inevitably come in the run-up to Opening Day. Would it be possible for the readership to get some input into prioritising for future years? If many people find the tiered rankings particularly useful, then that could be done significantly earlier next year, for example. It wouldn't be difficult to put together a quick online survey that would allow as many people as possible to have their say.

Mar 19, 2013 16:19 PM
rating: 0
 
BP staff member Joe Hamrahi
BP staff

I will tell you that the feedback we get, and we get plenty, plays a major role in what we produce. Not until we starting rolling out fantasy products did a single person mention the tiers. Most people wanted top 10-15 lists, dynasty coverage, and auction values. So, we took readership input very seriously. We can try to move the tiers up next year, but it will be at the expense of something else, and we're bound to disappoint another group of people I'm afraid.

Mar 19, 2013 16:57 PM
 
BP staff member Joe Hamrahi
BP staff

Here is the tentative schedule for the remaining tier rankings:

Wednesday: 1B
Thursday: 3B
Friday: SS

Monday: OF
Tuesday: SP
Wednesday: RP

Mar 19, 2013 15:28 PM
 
Tarakas

Guys,

I appreciate all of you do. I understand you can't do everything at once. I was just noting that this would have been useful earlier. I'm paying for these, and quite frankly, tier rankings after I draft have zero value.

I'm not in a dynasty league. I'm not interested in twitter Q & A's. I am sure someone out there enjoyed these--I know I am not the center of the universe, and I'm glad someone out there enjoyed the dynasty league list.

I wanted a tier list to use as reference for my draft, something I have used for a few years from this site. The dollar values are of some use, but when you need a SP, and you have one minute to make your online draft pick, an auction list is not as useful. I suppose I could spend a couple hours converting it over. I'd rather not--I used to get that from here without having to do that.

I appreciate you guys have been available on Twitter. I'm not sure how that will help me, though, when I need a SP and have 60 seconds to pick a player.

I was giving feedback,thinking professionals appreciated feedback and sometimes use it to make adjustments. Perhaps an acknowledgement that this was noted and would be considered for next year.

What most disappoints me is not that I won't have all the tiers by draft day. What most disappoints me is the apparent lack of interest in feedback. There is no acknowledgement of the problem; instead I'm told I'm given new features I do not want and could have asked a question on Twitter.

Mar 19, 2013 17:06 PM
rating: 0
 
BP staff member Joe Hamrahi
BP staff

I'm sorry you feel that way, but when you say, "You're doing this late, though. You won't be done by my draft date" how would you take it? I mean that seriously. I apologize for reacting, but that's not exactly constructive criticism either, is it? We obviously don't know everyone's draft dates, nor can we possibly accommodate them all. We do our best.

Now had you posted the second comment first, it would have been more constructive with reasons and explanations. Then maybe I would have understood more of what you were looking for and why, and we could have a reasonable exchange.

What I'm trying to say is that we're more than willing to listen, and we do it ALL the time. Just look back over the last few years across the entire site. But when comments come across as just complaining, it's hard for us to look past that. We're human too and very passionate about what we do.

Mar 19, 2013 17:21 PM
 
Tarakas

Okay, my apologies. I should have said more to be more constructive. I honestly thought the problem was obvious, and an explanation would seem insulting, not constructive. Here it is:

Tier rankings are used by people for their drafts. They lose value after the draft date.

The first part of preparing a series of draft preparation articles should be identifying by what date one expects, say, 75% of reader drafts to occur after, and have the series done by at least a day or two before that date. This is hard, because the earlier one does them in Spring Training, the less accurate they will be, so you have to balance it.

Most drafts happen a week or more before the season starts. Many happen on weekends.

When the season starts on Easter Sunday, that is a holiday weekend, and many people will not want to draft then.

So most drafts this year will happen on or before March 24.

A series of pieces presenting basic draft preparation information that completes after this date will not have value for many readers.

The optimal date--and I'm guessing here--to have the series done this year would be between March 13th and 20th. By the 27th, you've missed more than half of drafts. My guess is it would be 80% or more.

Now, I don't do this for a living. So maybe I'm missing something--but that is what I'm thinking after playing fantasy baseball and following it for 25 years. I sincerely admit you guys know things I don't, and I'm sure you make decisions based on information and deadlines I do not know.

To be fair, a large part of my job is putting up with people complaining, and I have to calmly and politely acknowledge the potential legitimacy for all complaints, even annoyingly stupid ones, and then process them. I'm very passionate about what I do, too, and part of that passion involves working hard to identify mistakes so I learn to be better at what I do. And I take complaints as a sign that I may need to alter my practices.

If I was you, how I would have responded to my complaint is like this:

"Thank you for the feedback. We work to do the best job we can. We understand that this was is too late for your draft, and we regret this. As we work on this next year, we'll work to offer features on the best schedule we can. I'm curious, readers, when do many of you hold your drafts?"

And then I'd see what the readers said, and I'd use this information when planning for next year. Maybe I'd learn that the guy complaining was a whining moron and an isolated case. Or maybe I'd learn that I had made a mistake for many readers and could do better next time.

Anyway, this is making a much bigger deal out of something that really, in the grand scheme of things, was a small thing--I saw it as a minor thing worth only a couple of sentences. You guys do nice work. If you're ever in Indianapolis, the first refreshing beverage of your choice is on me.

Mar 19, 2013 18:30 PM
rating: 1
 
BP staff member Joe Hamrahi
BP staff

OK, fair enough :)

We'll reevaluate it next year when we plan. Like I said in one of the earlier comments, we didn't really know people cared that much about the tiers until we started posting other rankings people complained about last year that we didn't have.

So in the end what it tells us is that people want everything...which is a good thing. Getting it to everyone when they want it will be the challenge, however. Ultimately we'll need to choose what gets published first and that will undoubtedly upset one segment of the customer base or another.

Mar 19, 2013 18:52 PM
 
swarmee

The nice thing about most of this, is that as of November 1, most of the source data is complete. That means PECOTA can start chugging its underlying projections at that time, with only changes to teams/home ballparks that would really affect the projections.

Prospects have completed their seasons, and all drafted players have either signed or not. Sure, there will be some stragglers (International Free Agents), but the lion's share is complete. Some prospects might get traded and therefore added/removed from a prospect list, but that can normally be handled in the comments section or with a spring training update article.

I would love for the "fantasy" subscription to be available in December, because I would pay at that time for access to your offseason information. To me, fantasy baseball (keeper leagues in particular) is a full-year prep job. I'm willing to chalk this season up to a large turnover in staff. You hired a lot of new guys, and the team decided to forge their own way. However, everyone liked the products that your predecessors already did and likened renewing their memberships to buying those products again. That's why so many people are upset.

Mar 19, 2013 19:28 PM
rating: 0
 
BP staff member Joe Hamrahi
BP staff

Be careful using the generalization that "everyone" liked what the predecessors did. You're looking at an awfully small sample size of comments here, and you know nothing of the people who didn't renew subscriptions. As I stated before, there were masses of people who wanted top 10 rankings, dynasty info, ADP, dollar values and more social interaction. Not to mention in season products we have planned. Quite a few people are VERY happy with the changes.

We will address the tiers next year, but again, I caution against generalizations. This is one product and one sample of comments.

I will say we are considering altering the subscription price and term in order for us to employ more resources for year round coverage in the future. But it will be up to the public to demand that coverage and be willing to pay more. (Read: Don't get all upset. There's be no decision on a change yet)

Thanks for the feedback

Mar 19, 2013 19:54 PM
 
BurrRutledge

Joe, is there a way to reformat this week's auction values by position? Voila: interim tier rankings sans commentary.

Thank you in advance for your consideration.

Best,
Burr

Mar 19, 2013 20:00 PM
rating: 0
 
BurrRutledge

Hot damn, I went back to yesterday's post and see sortable positions. Don't recall seeing them before! Thanks in retrospect!!!

Mar 19, 2013 20:06 PM
rating: 1
 
BP staff member Joe Hamrahi
BP staff

Yes! And they've been there the past 5 weeks or so :)

That's what Mike alluded to earlier in the comments. I also mentioned it in regard to the top 200-300 comment.

For the benefit of others, here's the latest link: http://www.baseballprospectus.com/article.php?articleid=19906

You can sort several different ways and by positions, mixed leagues, etc. It won't be in the same format as in the article on this page, and these are Mike's values alone, but the table gives you a good quick (tiered?) sense of how players are rated with dollar values.

You can also select players, copy them and dump them into Excel for cheat sheets in that format if you so desire.

Mar 19, 2013 20:16 PM
 
dillon415

Thank you for that. I don't know if this would negatively affect anyone but what about doing the SP tiers before this weekend instead of the IF? The IF top 15's pose less complications than 80 SP. And/or OF, same thing. Just a thought.

Mar 19, 2013 21:08 PM
rating: 0
 
abskippers

So I for one do appreciate all the other products BP has put out. Mike's bid limits, and their frequent updating based on actual market changes in expert auctions, were a great resource. And Jason and others have been really responsive to individual questions.

My only comment would be that the positional rankings previously released only went 15 deep in the IF and 50 deep in the OF. In a standard mixed league with a CI, MI, 5 OF, and a UT, they should go at least 18 and 60 deep and probably more to account for the UT. The pitcher rankings reflected this w/ 80 starters and 40 relievers.

I will say that the tier rankings Marc Normandin use to compile were a really efficient draft prep product. It's nice to incorporate PECOTA's projections into the rankings, and a discussion of where PECOTA's numbers were coming from. Also I recall (perhaps inaccurately) that series having more extensive commentary than this year's positional rankings. On the other hand, this year the rankings seemed to be a real team effort with a variety of voices in the mix, which was a positive.

Overall BP continues to produce great fantasy content and it is all appreciated. In fact it's so appreciated I wouldn't mind seeing as much of the tier rankings as possible before my draft this Saturday.



Overall though BP puts out great fantasy content

Mar 20, 2013 02:12 AM
rating: 1
 
BloodStripes

I can't believe all the whinging and complaining going on in this thread. There is info and rankings for all relevant players for each position all over the BP site. Is it really that hard to deduct that Matt Wieters is a tier above Sal Perez who in turn is a tier above Salty or Jaso. Use the find player tool atop the page, take a look at the projection and use your brain for half a minute fools. If your real smart you could scroll down and check what each player has done in his career and possibly come to a conclusion yourself.

Sure we pay our bucks to read all this stuff but do you really need BP tiers or anyone elses to hold your hand for a draft.

Take a spoonfull of cement and harden up!!!

Mar 20, 2013 04:05 AM
rating: 6
 
Tarakas

Fair enough.

I certainly have the intellectual ability to rank players without BP. I was playing fantasy baseball long before BP existed.

There are two issues here.

One
I work 50-60 hours a week. While I have the information and brains to put player rankings together, I am low on time. That is part of why I subscribe to the site.

It is not a difficult concept. When I go to a restaurant, I don't go because I am unable to feed myself. I don't go to Subway, for example, because I am baffled by the process of making a sandwich. If I complained of slow service at a restaurant, I would not expect another guest to tell me that I was a whining lazy person, with no right to complain since I have the skills to make a sandwich myself.

Two
My second point is, apparently BP is paying people to write these tier rankings. Which means we are paying for it. Having them produce them after most people's drafts is a waste of time and money. If tiers can't come out until this late, don't put the effort into them. That is not a complaint--I hope these guys don't want to waste their time and would rather spend it doing something useful.

To use the restaurant analogy, if the server brings you your salad after you have eaten the appetizer, the entree, and the dessert, it seems like a complete waste of time and money for everyone, regardless of whether you could have thrown a salad together yourself. And telling the server that people like their salad between the appetizer and the entree is giving helpful feedback.

Mar 20, 2013 08:58 AM
rating: 1
 
BP staff member Joe Hamrahi
BP staff

That's totally fair, and we said we'll review it next year. And I promise, we will.

But to follow your analogy, we do feel we've given our readers several appetizers over the past 5-6+ weeks. It's not like we sat around doing nothing. There are people, believe it or not, who have loved what we've put out in terms of the player $ values, the position rankings, ADP, players to watch, dynasty rankings, etc., etc. Maybe the people commenting here aren't thrilled, and again, we will try to address that next year, but it's not like what we've published is useless or a waste of money.

Mar 20, 2013 09:12 AM
 
kddean

I just want to complain about one thing or offer criticism.

I don't have Twitter. I don't like it. I understand that it can have value in general, but I'm not signing up for it.

So for you to say, just hit us up on Twitter, is worthless to me, and possibly others.

To be blunt, if we pay for a BP subscription, why should I have to use some other platform in order to communicate with BP authors? And no, Twitter is not the same thing as shooting you guys an email, which is technically another platform. The difference is that it's a safe assumption that EVERYONE has an email account, but not everybody has a Twitter account.

Mar 20, 2013 05:36 AM
rating: 1
 
BP staff member Joe Hamrahi
BP staff

Nobody said you can't email us. We'll do our best to answer every email we get. In fact, I know that Paul and Jason Collette have answered literally every email sent to them this year, most of which stem from their fantasy podcast. And that is hundreds of emails. When I say we're on Twitter, I'm not saying you HAVE to be on Twitter to reach us. We're just giving the readers more options. We also have regular on-site chats where you can ask about players, and you can ask additional player questions right here in the comments. Take a look back at the articles recently. Player questions are asked all the time, and the entire fantasy baseball team is pretty quick to answer.

Mar 20, 2013 05:51 AM
 
BP staff member Joe Hamrahi
BP staff

For those of you interested in asking more player questions, Cory Schwartz, VP of stats at MLB.com and fantasy baseball expert, will be chatting today on BP at 11:00 AM ET http://www.baseballprospectus.com/chat/chat.php?chatId=1024

Mar 20, 2013 06:03 AM
 
tomterp

Sleeper - Wilson Ramos

Mar 20, 2013 06:03 AM
rating: 0
 
FlyinJ

I too am disappointed about this late release and had contacted Mr. Carty via twitter about their release, not knowing he wasn't with BP any longer. I just assumed it was his project and we wouldn't get them anymore. I am glad to now see them coming out, however I'm in the same boat as many others having a draft this weekend.

My suggestion for the future is this; the previously released top 10 positional ranking have very little value to those who play in deep dynasty/keeper leagues. The tier rankings however, cover both styles of leagues providing info on super stars as well as the deep roster fillers. It would much more useful to all leagues to have this released early followed by the other content, which fills in the gaps nicely.

Thanks,
Justin in Minneapolis

Mar 20, 2013 07:25 AM
rating: 1
 
MichaelMets

I know I am late to writing this but I first thought about this a week ago and life got in the way. So I am just posting now:

I agree with everything Tarakas said. And here is my perspective, I have never have written a comment before on anything on the internet and I have certainly never spent money on a subscription to anything on the web before. Matter of fact I was about to stop playing fantasy since I was losing every year to people who spend hours a day on the ‘net researching. But then the 2012 elections happened and some guy named Silver dominated it and rocked the establishment with his eerily on-track predictions. So, of course, when I found out he got his start in predicting baseball players and his baby is now run by BP – I said let me give this fantasy thing one more shot. Let me see if I can sit back and just win without spending tons of time by just using what the model says of who is the best and taking out the inherent subjectivness/emotions that certainly comes with picking players. So I signed up and quickly became overwhelmed by the morass of PECOTA. After hours and days of frustration of trying to figure out what the heck was going on I finally wrote to BP with a lengthy list of questions. I am happy to report I got some great feedback from them. Honestly I am not happy with everything they answered, but I was impressed with their customer service. I truly felt they care about the subscribers, but I am clearly not in the sweet spot of the population who they are targeting. This seems a shame since the infrastructure is there is build a truly great/impactful tool for the masses of fantasy players and not just for a much smaller slice of fantasy players who have the wherewithal to spend hours digesting arcane stats. So bottom line, I am on the fence if I will use BP again next year. Here is what would need to happen for me to pay again: a) ‘Dummies’ guide to using PECOTA and PFM (easily findable on the website) b) tiered rankings coming out before my draft – not afterwards (my draft is always right around st paddy’s day, (BP - give yourself that date as a deadline to get everything draft related done) c) will Dickey really suck this year, will De Aza and Arencibia really come out the blue and become top tier? In other words is PECOTA really the bomb? d) every Fantasy article should somehow relate back to PECOTA – the writer should talk about why their rankings/tiers/etc differs or agrees with PECOTA. If this doesn’t happen then you are just another of the dozens of fantasy sites – why should I use BP or another that probably is free?

My take on what happened is the vast majority of BP resources are being spent on the book – but seriously BP, do you really think in the next 3 to 5 years anyone is going to buying the book? You guys are in danger of becoming Kodak, record labels, Borders, etc. That business model is over (selling hard copy books) – throw it out --- devote all of your resources to making the best digital product ever for fantasy player out there – experts and the casuals…. Now I know you probably have some nice, fat contract with a publishing company (which is why is can’t see your player cards for the current year – WTF!) but rip it up! Once day that contract will expire and do you really think the publishing company is going to provide anywhere close to what you are currently getting? Time to double down on the digital assets.

Mar 27, 2013 11:20 AM
rating: 0
 
szathkey

assuming a full season of playing time, where would you rate Josh Donaldson as a catcher in a 2 catcher roto league?

Mar 28, 2013 12:07 PM
rating: 0
 
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