BP Comment Quick Links
| Home | Unfiltered | Articles | Newsletter | Statistics | Fantasy | Events | Radio | Glossary | Search |
![]() |
|
|
|
August 17, 2009 Prospectus TodayMinding Your Own Businessby Joe Sheehan
We’re about 12 hours from the industry-imposed deadline for players selected in the 2009 Rule 4 draft to sign with the clubs who picked them. Those players who do not reach agreements go back into the 2010 draft pool, with the clubs that failed to sign picks in the first three rounds getting a compensation pick in that draft. Eighteen first-round selections have signed, but all anyone cares about is one who hasn’t. Stephen Strasburg, taken with the first pick by the Nationals, is in the midst of tendentious negotiations with the club, working largely through his advisor, Scott Boras. Arguably the top college pitcher since Mark Prior, Strasburg is attempting to get not just the top signing bonus in draft history, but one significantly higher than that achieved by Prior back in 2001 ($10.5 million total on a major league contract). The argument for his doing so is that he’s a comparable or even superior talent, and that we’re eight years—and aggressive attempts by the game’s administrators to control signing bonuses even above and beyond eliminating competition for the players—past Prior’s signing. You know all this. What I find interesting about this case is how vocal at least one player has been on the issue. Over the weekend, Strasburg’s potential teammate, Ryan Zimmerman, was quoted at the Washington Post website by writer Chico Harlan: "When it comes down to it, Strasburg has to think about, 'Can I go to bed if I turn down $15, 16 million dollars—whatever it is—to pass up the opportunity to play for these guys?' That's a lot of money. I don't understand what he thinks will be better next year. If we don't take him, who's gonna take him next year? Pittsburgh? San Diego? San Diego is not gonna pay him more. Absolutely his leverage will never be higher. Everybody wants to play where they want to play; everybody wants the ideal situation, but that's not the point of the draft. You can't tell people where you want to play. At some point, do it like everybody else has already done it. I agree, he's one of the better college pitchers ever to pitch, but he hasn't proven anything yet." Maybe it’s just me, but I’ve always found the notion of passing judgment on someone else about what they should work for as distasteful. You get what you negotiate, and it’s not up to a third party to decide what’s "a lot of money" for one of the two involved. The above quote got a lot of play, in part because Zimmerman was also a top-five draft pick just a few years ago, and so is considered to have comparable experience. He doesn’t. Coming out of college, Ryan Zimmerman was nothing like Stephen Strasburg, for one, and for two, who the hell cares what Ryan Zimmerman thinks? Zimmerman doesn’t give a tinker’s damn ($1, 1912) about Stephen Strasburg; he cares about not having to play third base behind crappy starters for bad teams for the rest of his life. He cares about playing a relevant baseball game in September for the first time ever. He cares, it would appear, about the profit margins of Major League Baseball. Zimmerman is a company man, and maybe he can be, since he signed a slot deal out of college and garnered a five-year contract this spring after not improving at all from the day he stepped into the league. People care what he thinks because he’s one of the best players on the team, and your influence in baseball is pretty strongly correlated to your OPS or ERA, rather than the caliber of your positions. Zimmerman is wrong, though. "At some point, do it like everybody else has done it" is perhaps the weakest argument—for anything—you could possibly put forth. It’s "I got mine" in more words, and it is unfortunately the argument that will probably lead to a formal slotting system in the next Collective Bargaining Agreement, as the ones who got theirs trade away the negotiating leverage of unrepresented teenagers in the grand traditions set by the NFL and NBA players.
BP Comment Quick Links MarkDuell (16877) Is there something in particular that Zimmerman said that you disagree with? Since when is it wrong for a player to answer a question that is asked of him? I am as free market as anyone you will find, but baseball isn't set up like an ideal free market, and the dollars tossed around are alot bigger than you or I will ever see. It's only natural that public figures are going to be viewed under the microscope, and Strasburg is no different. bmarinko (12618) I was wondering the same thing. The column seems like one big over-reaction. Zimmer even says ‘his leverage will never be higher’ which is one of Sheehan’s points. And It does matter what Zimmerman, the local columnist, talk-radio hosts and internet writers think because they are all part of the baseball community. You can’t dismiss them an unimportant just because you don’t agree. nghunter (3583) I'd like to add my support for this line of thinking. Tuck (667) Agree completely. Not to mention, Sheehan doesn't even address the substance of Zimmerman's quote. He's not saying that the kid shouldn't negotiate, or that Strasburg's situation is like his own. He's saying that the kid shouldn't be a dumbass. Zim gives a dollar amount--15 or 16 million. If the Nats offer that and Strasburg says no, then it's malpractice by the adviser and sheer stupidity by the player. Write that column. This is drivel. awayish (20768) you guys are missing the real substance of zimmerman's quote, the context in which he talks about the situation, the way he frames the problem as strasburg's higher demand and sense of entitlement. this is a common enough sentiment in the public's view of athletes, but it is also ironic to the extreme since it misrepresents the situation to the disadvantage of players like zimmerman. it is this "class traitor" behavior, to pull a phrase from the mythical past with real politics, that sheehan wanted to grill. Clonod (35609) Great column, Joe. Chad (35978) Which is exactly why Strasburg will probably sign for whatever he and Boras can get out of the Nati(o)nals. tooci4 (23694) To expand on what Clonod is saying, Scott Boras is embroiled in a repeated game of negotiations with MLB teams, with this Stephen Strasburg situation only being the most recent iteration. In such games, it is a great advantage to make your threats credible, which is exactly what Boras can accomplish by pressuring Strasburg to sit out. If Strasburg sits out, this is a huge win for Boras because the threat of having future draft picks sit out will be more credible, but it's hard to imagine it being beneficial for the young pitcher. losermix (15106) All of these comments are only valid if you presuppose that Boras is set on manipulating the draft for his own selfish ends at the expense of what his clients want. Although this may be possible, I don't really see any evidence of this ever actually happening. Has a Boras client ever come out and said, "I wanted to sign but Mr. Boras wouldn't let me?" Maybe, but I must have missed it. It seems to me that ultimately, his clients make the decisions and he does his best to effectuate them. If Strasburg ultimately decides he needs __ million dollars to sign and won't sign for anything less, that's his prerogative and Boras' responsibility to make sure he does everything he can to get that kind of money. Clonod (35609) I disagree. Not only is it in Boras' personal best interests, but more importantly it's in his clients' collective best interests for him to have a different risk analysis than any one individual client. tooci4 (23694) Note that, as of a few weeks ago at least, Strasburg said he had not once been in contact with the Nationals. Boras appears to be in complete control. While the decision obviously lies with Strasburg in the end, Boras is the expert, so you know that his opinion and interests are being represented in the discussions. alaime (26311) Maybe its been done and I've missed it, but I'd like to see an article on the value of these draft picks. Are most of them busts, how many fail to make it to the bigs, how many make an all-star team, is a #1 worth $10 mill, etc.? Paul Andrew Burnett (2093) Search the archives. Rany Jazayerli did a whole series on the draft for BP a few years ago. baserip4 (44653) Similarly, The Hardball Times took a look at the value of hitting and pitching prospects. SC (27400) It seems that if Strasburg refuses to sign because of a difference of $10m or less, he's making a mistake, shortening his career by a year, and therefore the opportunities to get paid. Sure, if he doesn't have a career longer than six years, holding out for the maximum possible contract makes some sense, but there is a significant financial cost to Strasburg if he fails to sign and misses a year of baseball. phuturephillies (26368) The easy solution to the entire draft mess is to go to hard slotting and reduce the number of years that a player has before he goes on the 40 man (to 3 and 4 respectively), and then reduce the number of team controlled years from 6 to 5. SC (27400) This is an interesting idea, but needs some modification, perhaps an age + years system for service time. 40 man rosters don't have room for prospects drafted or signed as teenagers, who still aren't anywhere close to the Show at 20 or 21. If anything, this idea would decrease the value of teenage prospects, since the added development time brings with it roster problems, making teams more inclined to draft more finished products from college. phuturephillies (26368) worst teams aren't getting the best talent, is what that should say. oy. stevekantor (20200) tendentious????? Chad (35978) My simple suggestion for the whole draft/arbitration/indentured servitude issue is: why not have arbitration start in year 1? Or year 2? jayman4 (4850) As a fan of small market team, I disagree with Joe's assertion that the draft is just there to deprive the players of money. Maybe that is what the league wants, but the system is close to being a quasi-FA system. Since the only way small market teams can compete to to build the farm, not being able to acquire the best amateur talent is further tilting the field against them. I don't like owners, but I do want competitive balance. kcboomer (4676) What Zimmerman did was no worse than what the author did, only Zimmerman was more tactful. Unlike the author Zimmerman has "skin in the game". His livelihood will be directly effected by these negotiations. The author?? Not so much. TaylorSanders (12928) Zimmerman passed judgment on Strasburg for not signing. Sheehan defended Strasburg. They aren't the same. Yes Zimmerman has a stake but he wasn't just saying that he hoped Strasburg would sign, he said that Strasburg 'should' sign and implied that he was being greedy and selfish by not doing so. Sheehan just exposed Zimmerman's position. There is no parallel. akodobill (2793) The problem with this thinking is that it puts all of the risk on the team. If drafted players got salaries comparable to established players, a team that gets a couple of draft busts would be severely handicapped in trying to improve their team through free agency or other draft picks. baserip4 (44653) And if they prove they are a top performer they shouldn't get paid until they have six years of service time. victor19nyc (3670) But what if they do? LindInMoskva (18481) Draft compensation has to consider risk. Cherry picking stars give the appearance that young recently drafted players are bargains, but consider that while Lincecum was a bargain, the Rockies are paying Greg Reynolds 3.25M for a 2-8 8.13 62 IP career. The first 10 players drafted that year got $26,925,000 which seems about right to pay for Hochevar, Reynolds, Longoria, Lincoln, Morrow, Miller, Kershaw, Stubbs, Rowell, and Lincecum. That is an aggregate 84-85 4.17 era pitcher line, plus Longoria. cdoyle31 (32358) Yes, Vishnu forbid that a billionaire owner be out a couple of million bucks when a kid blows out his arm and never hits 90 again. You're right; let's transfer all that risk to a 20-year-old and his family who have spent thousands preparing him for a professional career. Why not make the players pay for the right to prove themselves to you and the clubs? We can't possibly ask them to take on risk. akodobill (2793) In the current status quo, the owner already has the risk of paying the unproven kid millions of dollars in initial signing bonuses. The family can get by fine with that, I imagine. akodobill (2793) Just to clarify, I'm saying that the current signing bonus level allows teams to have busts without getting crippled. If Boras had his way and could get star-level contracts for his players before they played a pro game, a team that drafts a pitcher who gets hurt and a shortstop who doesn't make it is in a very bad position. cdoyle31 (32358) You're completely satisfied with being the arbiter of what's "good enough" for Strasburg's, or any other player's, family? You're bolder than I, friend. Telnar (35991) How about letting Boras's risk neutrality benefit his client? What if Boras in effect offers Strassburg a $2m disability insurance policy (paying him the difference if he makes less than $2m in his career, perhaps because of an injury in an independent league) in exchange for an extra 10% of any bonus he gets next year in excess of the Nationals final offer. emanski (18518) I think fans understand negotiating and leverage, on average maybe better than Ryan Zimmerman. What we don't understand is not signing when not signing has little chance of being better than losing the negotiation and signing for less than beyond the dreams of avarice. It's wrong to think, as many fans do, that "X million is enough, just sign," but for college juniors at least, it's demonstrably right to feel that "X million is greater than 0 million, just sign." lynchjm (3967) Other readers have rated this comment below the viewing threshold. Click here to view anyway. Everything Zimmerman said is correct. I can see why that is so upsetting to Joe. topesrule (11092) Other readers have rated this comment below the viewing threshold. Click here to view anyway. The site has a ton of reasons to recommend it, but I wouldn't count the political and labor positions among them. airlifting (35353) Other readers have rated this comment below the viewing threshold. Click here to view anyway. It is losing those reasons. David Coonce (29682) Not sure what you mean - fair trade, competition, free markets - aren't those all actually very conservative labor/ political philosophies? And aren't those philosophies what Sheehan is supporting here? victor19nyc (3670) The question is: how do you implement it? The inverted draft is supposed to allow for the worst teams the opportunity to draft the best available players first, thus distributing the talent pool thus improving competition across the league. The true "free market" part of all this comes in free agency, but the problem is properly compensating guys who become stars before they reach free agency. brain1081 (52323) I would like to know if players actually do get a bigger offer after sitting out a year when they are picked in the first round. Especially guys that are done with college and can only go play independent league ball. lynchjm (3967) Let's break it down: Jetson (660) Bingo. And then there's this gem from said rant: jpaternostro (37886) My response to this is if Strasburg was a free agent, right now, how much would he get? Yeah, twenty million is more than just about everyone posting at this site will ever see, but it is not that much in baseball dollars. For example, it is half of what Carlos Silva got paid. And Silva had given us about as much evidence that he would be a capable major league starter over the life of the contract as Strasburg has. lynchjm (3967) We all know he'd get tens of millions more if he was a free agent. It doesn't change the fact that $16 million dollars is 'a lot of money'. It is quite obviously, a lot of money. losermix (15106) I don't think the issue is whether $16 million is "a lot of money." Objectively, it is. I do disagree that a) he can't expect to do better next year and b) his leverage won't be any higher next year. You can draw all the parallels to Matt Harrington you want, but no one was calling Harrington one of the best college pitchers ever and the best prospect in the history of the draft or whatever other superlatives have been attached to him. If Strasburg believes that he can get more money/a better situation next year, then he's entitled to take that risk. And I don't see how his leverage changes one way or the other this year as opposed to next. He's a unique talent, as long as he doesn't suffer a catastrophic injury his leverage shouldn't change all that much. joheimburger (46517) But a lot of money relative to his talent level is very, very debatable. silviomossa (2007) I'm glad you broke it down like this. People are overreacting to his quote, and he didn't say anything off at all. He was, if anything, restrained and diplomatic. skipthorpe (15294) Totally agree and... Aaron Whitehead (30690) I've never understood the "you're not in the game, you don't understand" attitude. It's the insular, fraternal order side of baseball at work. ravenight (45272) I think the point is that many people think holding out for an extra million or two tacked onto a $15 million deal is superfluous or stupid compared to getting his career started and striving for greatness. Not greatness for the sake of an even larger payday, but for the sake of the game. You may think that's dumb, but it's the reason that salary negotiations always leave a bad taste in the mouth of fans. rguerin (14930) There's an obvious "solution" albeit not a cure-all -- allow the trading of draft picks and unsigned draftees. Whether Strasburg is indeed a once-in-a-lifetime talent shouldn't be left solely to the Nationals to decide. If the Yankees, Sox, Mets, Dodgers (whomever...) believe that Strasburg's talent is indeed legendary, then allow them to trade for that potential. Edwincnelson (33517) The draft isn't "fair" and really can't be. No one has the "right" to a fair negotiation with an organization like MLB, or the NBA or NFL. If the draft was "fair" and amateur players could negotiate with any team when the declare out of high school or college the whole system would collapse. Edwincnelson (33517) Oh, I totally agree with rguerin that draft picks should be able to be traded. It works in the NFL and the NBA. fguttman (19009) "Stephen Strasburg could win Rookie of the Year and finish third in the NL Cy Young Award voting in 2010, and make $400,000 in 2011" baserip4 (44653) Well, yes, which is EXACTLY why it's ludicrous to criticize him for pushing for as high a signing bonus as possible. Stinneford1 (27441) Other readers have rated this comment below the viewing threshold. Click here to view anyway. Exactly. That was left out , wasn't it? Convenient. Matthew Avery (39859) Take away half of that for taxes, etc., etc. jclaffs (18102) Beautiful job, Joe. Americans are too willing to buy the company line in general, but especially when the laborers are "playing a kid's game." emanski (18518) The draft mitigates a prospect's need to thrive. This is a relatively fair exchange of leverage. Sans draft, a prospect must choose a balance between dollars and prestige. The more prestigious the ballclub, the greater the risk of failure to thrive, no matter how much money is at stake. molnar (170) well, maybe *one* would. emanski (18518) Hey, I'm all for breaking it down. I'd find it highly engaging if someone were to research and write a story tracking Strasburg's value in a hypothetical no-draft market. joheimburger (46517) Just wait a couple months, see what Aroldis Chapman gets and know that it would be considerably more. Schlom (8514) You can't compare Dice-K and Strasburg because Dice-K was way, way, way more accomplished than Strasburg. Not only did he have 8 seasons under his belt in the Japanese majors, but was also the best pitcher in the 2006 WBC and probably the best pitcher in the 2004 Olympics. Compare that to Strasburg who has had just two good years in the Mountain West Conference and wasn't the ace on the 2008 Olympic team. mikebuetow (20931) It may be the way you worded that, but in fact Dice-K received far less than $100 million. Perhaps you meant to write that the Red Sox paid $100+ million for him. johnpark99 (8349) From Joe's article: "Zimmerman doesn’t give a tinker’s damn ($1, 1912) about Stephen Strasburg; he cares about not having to play third base behind crappy starters for bad teams for the rest of his life. He cares about playing a relevant baseball game in September for the first time ever. He cares, it would appear, about the profit margins of Major League Baseball." TaylorSanders (12928) This article was definitely enlightening for me. It changed my whole perspsective on the issue. I do wish there was some way to allow weaker teams an advantage in acquiring young talent. What I'm wondering is why can't young players sign incentive heavy contracts? Why can't Strasburg get a $5million bonus if he has WARP better than 6 or something like that? Do the rules prevent that? I can't blame these guys for trying to get as much as they can for signing when they have no leverage for such a long time after that. gtgator (3180) "So it doesn’t really matter what Ryan Zimmerman thinks. It doesn’t matter what your local columnist, making $63,000 a year without a fraction of the talent that Stephen Strasburg has, thinks. It doesn’t matter what talk-radio hosts, who have the same grasp of sports economics that I do of SQL, think." John Collins (110) I think you're missing the point. Joe means that when the issue is "whether, and for how much, Strasburg should sign" then what Zimmerman et al think doesn't matter. Joe is not offering an alternative answer to the question from what Zimmerman et al have said; he's saying it should be up to Zimmerman (and the Nationals of course). psugator01 (32968) wow, what a myopic, one sided article with a lot of extreme examples used to try to influence the reader. This isn't the same market as 2003-04 anymore and Strasburg isn't a free agent. We could cite free agent contracts all day long that made younger, cost controlled players look underpaid, but there's no point to it. tiggerv (27139) I think you missed badly on this one Joe. I thought Zimm was 100% on the mark. FalcoT (47044) 1. Stephen Strasburg probably has signed a "loss of talent" insurance policy with Lloyds of London, and is probably set for life even if both his arms were to fall off tomorrow. Maybe not $15 million set, but probably-retiring-very-young set. jdseal (46813) Here's a suggestion. jpaternostro (37886) Sure, but here's the thing. No free agent contract in baseball history has been built that way. It's predicated on an assumed future production. Sure, there are incentives, escalators and stuff, but any team makes a decision, we think you are worth x number of dollars over y seasons and we are going to pay you it regardless, because baseball talent is incredibly scarce. jdseal (46813) I'm not really suggesting that the player assume the majority of the risk, but rather some sort of splitting of the risk, between team and player; still a large signing bonus or guaranteed money, just not a huge one. And its more than risk, in the sense of risk of injury, there's also just some unproven, unknown element of the commodity, so it's leaving the question open until more facts are revealed. Mountainhawk (37208) Other readers have rated this comment below the viewing threshold. Click here to view anyway. It'll be a national holiday the day Boras dies or retires. Schlom (8514) If it's not a good idea to sign a free-agent coming off his only good year then why exactly is it a good idea to give a huge contract to Strasburg? Isn't Strasburg basically a guy coming off a "career year?" Granted he's young so you are hoping that this year was just the tip of the iceberg but doesn't the same principle apply? amazin_mess (9525) Strasburg will be one of the most hated players in the game if he rejects that offer. amazin_mess (9525) Not sure about Baker breaking Mark Prior. Sure he worked him, but that was six years ago. Prior is as fragile as 100-year-old china. marshaja (16270) Joe, metfanaaron2001 (29380) I think one theme that comes up here is whether or not normal labor and free-market "rules" should apply when talking about so many millions of dollars. amazin_mess (9525) Other readers have rated this comment below the viewing threshold. Click here to view anyway. If Strasburg passes on that money, he's the biggest idiot in the entire sports world because he'll never come close to it a year from now. Actually, I hope he passes and screws himself. abcjr2 (1471) I read this on ESPN's site a couple of minutes ago: saramaki (23731)
sanott (8027) i usually agree with your articles, but this one seems a little over the top. kennygreer1993 (52484) Hello everyone first post here, so here I go. Jeff Evans (26746) It works both ways. Joe's argument is correct, but the teams involved are taking a major risk at the same time if they're paying out large signing bonuses to unproven (at least at the top level)players. Both sides have to take into context a potential injury in this situation. One side will need to worry about performance in their initial investment. If the player in question becomes a bust or disappointment - a team like the Yankees can brush it off fairly easy where a small-market, low-payroll type would get crushed. awayish (20768) well intended article that is lost on the public due to general inability to understand the idea that pay structures are partially the result of power/politics, or more plainly, human action under the purview of concepts such as justice and fairness. yes, strasburg is on the spot, but the general direction of the public discussion, zimmerman's comment being just an example, is that strasburg is "holding out" or holding in hostage a poor franchise. the leverage seems to be in the hands of the individual player, who after all does not own the identity of "The Nationals" under whose aegis fans align themselves. what is out of sight, and indeed out of mind, is the context under which that negotiation take place. the draft didn't descend from G_d or appear as Natural Law out of the olde country, it is the result of power play and history. the context is in other words not a given that is immune to judgment of fairness and justice. it may be the case that strasburg is being selfish, (as if he has an obligation to serve a bunch of people's devotion to a constructed entity remains a marvel of human nature) but perhaps his selfish fight for his fair value (after all, who wouldn't want to work as an indentured servant for a chance to gain the privilege of being dealt with fairly) isn't so damning in the proper historic context? JParks (25951) Don't go too crazy, oneofthem, it's just Joe stirring the pot as usual. He could have written the same article a hundred times over for every draft negotiation. It's a world of choices - the owner decides if he wants to pay the salary, the player decides if he wants to take it. Pretty simple, really. sandriola (31950) Isn't Joe just saying that no one should judge Strausburg for doing whatever he ends up doing in his pursuit of wanting to get as much money as he can? If he wants to pass on the Nationals' offer, that's his choice. History will tell us whether or not he makes the right choice tonight. soBC (2918) "In 2004, Prior’s salary was $2.1 million, and while we didn’t know it then, his career was over. Even though Prior had been one of the very best pitchers in baseball in his first two seasons in the majors, he didn’t get paid like it, because the rules aren’t set up that way." kennygreer1993 (52484) An ideal system would be no draft and no arbitration or free agency years. When you sign a contract as an amateur that is where your contract starts and from there your performance dicates whether you get a deal or not. Want to get real idealistic how about baseball set up like Europe with relegation. Never happen but it would be interesting to see all the best players in one 8-10 team league. pmolo1230 (16853) In the end, Zimmerman's logic prevailed. A pitcher who misses a year of development is crazy and Strasburg is no dummy like Aaron Crow, Harrington, et al. Even a hitter is likely a fool as well given the time value of money, chance of injury (small but not non-zero), and leverage just goes down over time. The big one though is delaying one's arb clock and free-agency in this day and age where 28 is much more likely to be at peak than say 30. The draft might have its inherent problems but Zimmerman really just stated the current reality and he also has a vested interest in getting Strasburg to come, which he is. And to say a high draft pick "will never get paid" in this current climate rubs me the wrong way. Where else can a guy not have a college degree and be $5-10 million richer overnight? The system is flawed but that's a different topic. daiheide (43041) Zimmerman signed his contract without having improved since the day he set foot in the league? AirSteve01 (19155) "Stephen Strasburg could win Rookie of the Year and finish third in the NL Cy Young Award voting in 2010, and make $400,000 in 2011. He could be even better in '11, racking up a ton of innings as the Nationals make a wild-card push, and make $400,000 in 2012" BP staff (17) In five months, compare those figures to the 2010-12 salaries for Jason Marquis, or Jarrod Washburn, or Joel Piniero. Aug 20, 2009 07:59 AM AirSteve01 (19155) Presumably that main point is this: "when one stands up to that system and tries to make the best possible deal for himself, he shouldn’t be excoriated, or labeled as greedy, or derided as "unproven."" Ray Whatley (267) A few points I thought of while reading all the comments:
|




114 comments have been left for this article.
Hear, hear!