CSS Button No Image Css3Menu.com

Baseball Prospectus home
Click here to log in Click here for forgotten password Click here to subscribe

<< Previous Article
Bizball: Why the Seatt... (04/16)
<< Previous Column
Premium Article Out of Left Field: How... (04/09)
Next Column >>
Out of Left Field: Des... (04/23)
Next Article >>
Premium Article Prospectus Hit and Run... (04/16)

April 16, 2012

Out of Left Field

The Worst Baseball Discussions We Have

by Matthew Kory

the archives are now free.

All Baseball Prospectus Premium and Fantasy articles more than a year old are now free as a thank you to the entire Internet for making our work possible.

Not a subscriber? Get exclusive content like this delivered hot to your inbox every weekday. Click here for more information on Baseball Prospectus subscriptions or use the buttons to the right to subscribe and get instant access to the best baseball content on the web.

Subscribe for $4.95 per month
Recurring subscription - cancel anytime.

a 33% savings over the monthly price!

Purchase a $39.95 gift subscription
a 33% savings over the monthly price!

Already a subscriber? Click here and use the blue login bar to log in.

Just before spring training ended, an email arrived from two friends of mine. They’re both Philadelphia Phillies fans. As you are likely aware, the Phillies have the greatest starting pitching staff in the history of ever, but they aren’t without problems elsewhere. Ryan Howard’s recovery from a ruptured Achilles and Chase Utley’s on-going knee injuries have ripped the heart out of an offense that was once the National League’s best. Their stranglehold on the NL East is now in doubt.

None of that was discussed in the email. Neither was Jonathan Papelbon’s ridiculous contract, or the disintegration of the farm system, or the aging nucleus, or even Charlie Manuel, possibly the funniest manager in baseball history. Nope, none of that.

What do two ravenous Phillies fans email about if it isn’t the offense, the pitching, the bullpen, free agents, age, the Phillie Phanatic (it wasn’t the Phillie Phanatic) or the manager with the corn-pone accent? I’ll tell you what it’s about, but you have to promise not to stop reading. Deal? OK.

Juan Pierre and Scott Podsednik.

Pierre and Podsednik were hoping to join a Phillies bench that included noted Millard Fillmore advocate (he’s old) Jim Thome, who offers the same defensive value as a tipped-over chair. Thome’s role as pinch-hitter extraordinaire placed an increased strain on the other members of the bench. Namely, they had to be able to do things. Fortunately Laynce Nix is a certified member of the Utility Players of America (motto: “Sure thing, boss!”), meaning he’s not one of those uni-positional guys who specializes in me-first attitudes and egotistical behavior like demanding to play the same position all the time. So he’s in. Brian Schneider hasn’t hit a baseball since the Carter administration but he knows how to strap on a chest protector and wiggle fingers in between his legs (and he’s single, ladies! Or not! I have no idea!) so he’s in, too.

Between Thome the pinch-hitter, Nix the jack of some trades, and Schneider the guy who can catch balls thrown directly at him, you’d think all the positions would be covered. You’d think so, but you’d be totally wrong. You’d be wrong because you forgot about an outfielder. Silly you. Well sure, Nix can [airquotes] play the outfield, the same way I can cook food: dangerously (and I’m single, ladies! Or not! I have no idea!). If Laynce Nix ever plays an inning in center field the players union will file a grievance alleging A) an attempt to cut salaries by not paying for a center fielder and B) pitcher abuse.

That’s where my friends’ email comes in. 

Any thoughts on the Pierre v Podsednik debate?

Oh, God, really? Do I have to choose?

Juan Pierre is 34 while Podsednik is 36. Both players are old, because this is the Phillies bench we’re talking about. Former members of said illustrious club from just the past three years include (but are not limited to) Ross Gload (35), Greg Dobbs (32), Juan Castro (38), Chris Coste (36), Mike Sweeney (36 going on 80), Paul Bako (37), Miguel Cairo (35), and of course the borderline immortal Matt Stairs (41 or 177 in dog years*). Five of those players ended their careers on the Phillies bench. Okay, only four. Somehow Juan Castro scratched out 19 more plate appearances with the Dodgers before realizing his true calling was to not play baseball anymore.

*You are thinking that seven times 41 does not equal 177, and I don't know how to calculate dog years. But no sir, it is you who does not know how to calculate dog years.

The similarities don’t stop with age. Both Pierre and Podsednik are within an inch of height and 10 pounds of weight (if Baseball-Reference is to believed) of each other. That makes sense, because both play a similar style of game, that being the athletic-looking-but-not-actually-very-good-at-actual-baseball-playing style.

Here is a graph showing the True Average (TAv) by year for both Podsednik (in blue) and Pierre (in red):

True Average is scaled to batting average, so as the glossary says, Miguel Cabrera’s .342 is excellent, Alex Rodriguez’ .300 is good, and Austin Jackson’s .260 is average. As you can see, both Podsednik and Pierre bounce around between bleeeeeeeaaaah and uuughhh. Podsednik’s career TAv is .253 and Pierre’s is .249.

So what’s the difference? TAv doesn’t take base running or defense into account. So is one old weak-hitting outfielder better than the other? Probably. Maybe. I don’t know. I know Pierre is the poster child for defense and stolen bases at the expense of what I enjoy in players, the ability to get on base and hit for power. (I’m a child of the ‘90s, what can I say?) There was a time when Pierre was probably that guy or close to him. The guy I saw in spring training this year was different. Bad. Pierre butchered a catchable fly ball in left field into a double, and then his lollipop off-line throw turned it into a triple. He had a series of weakly hit balls, maybe one of which went for a single.

Podsednik was the guy who didn’t homer once during the 2005 season, then hit one in Game One of the ALDS against the Red Sox. I looked it up because I remember it as this soul-crushing blow, but the magic of the internet tells me it was a solo home run that bumped the score from 8-2 to 9-2. Losing is one thing but giving up a homer to a guy who didn’t hit one all year in 568 plate appearances is embarrassing. You’re already lying beaten on the schoolhouse playground. Then, through a bruised eye, you see Scott Podsednik take a big wad of gum out of his mouth, lean over, and smear it in your hair. That’s how I remember it and that’s probably how Podsednik remembers it, too, because other than a spike in 2009, that moment may have been Podsednik’s zenith as a player.

Both Pierre and Podsednik probably don’t have much time left in the majors. Both are former All-Stars who have received MVP votes, but are now just hoping for jobs as role players. They’d both love to be Laynce Nix. Ah, to have that kind of job security. Sure thing, boss!

The strange thing about all this is that anyone cares about it. The last spot on the bench is going to affect the team about as much you or I will. What’s more, there is a high degree of likelihood the winner won’t stick with the team for longer than a few months. Just long enough to show that even one start a week is too much for their abilities.

So why is any of this interesting? Because it’s not. This is the minutia of baseball. It’s utterly unimportant and we all do to. I sure as heck do it. It’s not where the game is won or lost, yet it holds and even demands our interest.

Maybe it’s that way because that is the portion of the roster to which we can actually relate. Few of us have been stars at anything for entire lives, like Chase Utley. Few of us can do anything as well as Roy Halladay pitches or Ryan Howard hits homers. But most of us have been the last one on the team, or the last person at the dance, at least once. Most of us have been unwanted before, and going from that to proving oneself useful is one of the greater experiences life has to offer.

Last year during spring training, the only thing anyone had to talk about regarding the Red Sox roster was, and I'm not making this up, who would be the 25th man on the roster. That was all that a month and a half of spring training was going to determine, so we talked about it for about a month and a half and it was fun. I don’t remember who won the job, but I remember having the discussion for way too long. And enjoying the heck out of it.

In the end, the Phillies picked Pierre and that’s probably about right*. He’s in Philadelphia tearing it up to the tune of .350/.350/.350 in 20 plate appearances. Podsednik was sent down to the Triple-A Lehigh Valley IronPigs where he is crushing at .125/.222/.125. So you can see the Phillies clearly made the right choice. In fact, Podsednik is so important to the team and the organization that his photo on the team page shows him wearing a Blue Jays hat.

*or not

In what is nowhere near the ultimate irony, Podsednik has been mentioned as a potential replacement for the recently injured Jacoby Ellsbury. Wouldn’t that be fun. And no, that wasn’t a question.

Finally, you may be wondering how I really replied to the email that started all of this. This was my answer:

Pierre v. Podsednik? I guess, maybe, if you had to, like were physically forced to, take one of them you'd take Pierre for defensive value… But now that I think about it... oh, my head hurts. Doesn't anyone have Matt Stairs' phone number?

Maybe I should’ve just stuck with that.

Matthew Kory is an author of Baseball Prospectus. 
Click here to see Matthew's other articles. You can contact Matthew by clicking here

Related Content:  Scott Podsednik,  Chase Utley,  Juan Pierre

27 comments have been left for this article. (Click to hide comments)

BP Comment Quick Links

Brock Dahlke

But if you had stuck with that response you would have cost all of us BP readers a bunch of laughs. Great work

Apr 16, 2012 00:15 AM
rating: 7

Agreed. Nice work.

* Or not. :)

Apr 16, 2012 04:30 AM
rating: 8
BP staff member Matt Kory
BP staff

Thanks! I'm glad you enjoyed it.

Apr 16, 2012 14:20 PM

Howard tore is Achilles tendon, not his ACL.

Apr 16, 2012 05:54 AM
rating: 0
BP staff member Ben Lindbergh
BP staff


Apr 16, 2012 08:34 AM

Non Hittairre (or as Americans pronounce it, "Juan Pierre") has defensive value - a NEGATIVE defensive value. 65 year old beer vendors with full boxes of iced-down cold ones are taking the extra base on his rag arm and his routes to fly balls are making Hunter Pence feel nervous. (And we all know how Hunter loves to take the "scenic route" on his fly-catching expeditions...)

Apr 16, 2012 06:24 AM
rating: 0

In his youth, Pierre was an accomplished fly-chaser, but he never could throw worth a damn. A likeable guy, though.

Sort of like Johnny-Damon-light, but without the ability to hit.

Apr 16, 2012 19:35 PM
rating: 0
Other readers have rated this comment below the viewing threshold. Click here to view anyway.

"an email arrived from two friends of mine. They’re both Philadelphia Phillies."

Who edited this?

"ONE email "from" two friends" (an impossibility, practically)
who both PLAY for the Phillies?

Seriously?! That's HOW you wrote it!!!

Apr 16, 2012 07:37 AM
rating: -6
BP staff member Ben Lindbergh
BP staff

Added "fans" after "Phillies." Will hold off on changing how many emails there were until I hear from Matt.

Apr 16, 2012 08:35 AM
BP staff member Matt Kory
BP staff

Sorry it's taken me so long to reply.

The email in question was a thread from two friends of mine who are Phillies fans. They had corresponded with each other and then emailed me in the course of an already begun conversation. That's why I said the email came from two of them. I apologize if that was a confusing or off-putting way to phrase it.

Apr 16, 2012 14:16 PM

Matt. I think you are very funny in a snarky way (I laughed out loud a couple times), but it's tough to have lots of errors if you wanna be snarky-guy. Also, I believe it's minutiae (pl).

Apr 16, 2012 09:33 AM
rating: 0
BP staff member Sam Miller
BP staff

Blame me, not Matt, and thanks to those who have pointed them out so we could fix them.

Apr 16, 2012 09:49 AM
BP staff member Matt Kory
BP staff

I agree, the errors are upsetting and I apologize. Sam is being magnanimous, but it's my name on the article so the mistakes are mine and thus the blame for the errors lies with me. I'm glad you are enjoying my articles and I'll endeavor to do better, more error-free writing in the future. Thanks for reading and commenting.

Apr 16, 2012 14:19 PM


Apr 16, 2012 09:51 AM
rating: 0

I laughed, I cried, I remembered who Scott Podsednik was. Two thumbs up.

Apr 16, 2012 10:25 AM
rating: 4

I'm an Orioles fan and on Orioleshangout.com we literally had a 30+ page thread about the Dana Eveland for two nondescript minor leaguers trade. When your team almost never acquires an impact player you're constantly having Posednik vs. Pierre debates.

Apr 16, 2012 10:40 AM
rating: 5
BP staff member Matt Kory
BP staff

I've seen similar threads on Sons of Sam Horn and I totally love them. Stuff like that is one of the things that makes rooting for any team worthwhile.

Thanks for reading.

Apr 16, 2012 14:22 PM

Just amazing!
I actually fell out of my chair laughing at this.
I'm fine by the way.

Apr 16, 2012 14:40 PM
rating: 0

Is your chair now filling in at 1B for Ryan Howard?

Apr 16, 2012 15:28 PM
rating: 4

I'm pretty sure Scott Podsednik's career zenith was not his meaningless home run in the 2005 ALDS against the Red Sox, but was the walk-off home run he hit later that same postseason to win a World Series game. (A cynic would also note that a mistake such as this lends support to the criticism that Red Sox fans are provincial and that east coast bias really exists, even if only subconsciously)

My favorite Juan Pierre stat: Pierre holds the franchise record for most outs made in a season for four different teams: Florida, the Dodgers, the Cubs, and the White Sox.

Apr 17, 2012 11:44 AM
rating: 0
BP staff member Matt Kory
BP staff

I suppose that's one interpretation. But that assumes that World Series games are more important than Division Series games played by the Red Sox, something which I'd dispute.

In all seriousness, you're right. The World Series homer was undoubtedly more important. However, in my defense, I didn't watch the World Series that year because I was angry the Red Sox had lost. So, uh, yeah. That.

Thanks for reading.

Apr 17, 2012 12:03 PM

LOL. Please keep up the good work. Career zenith mistake notwithstanding, I enjoyed the article (and the snark).

Apr 17, 2012 12:08 PM
rating: 0
Lloyd Cole

It's probably not necessary to say so, but I will add my voice to the chorus: this was REALLY funny (and well-constructed). More, please.

Apr 17, 2012 11:57 AM
rating: 1
BP staff member Matt Kory
BP staff

You're right it isn't necessary, but it's very nice of you. I always appreciate it when readers take the time to let me know they liked (or didn't like) my work. Though I won't lie, I do prefer the first one. Thanks for reading and thanks for taking the time to comment.

Apr 17, 2012 12:04 PM

Hilarious article and the type of conversation baseball fans have all the time. I had a 45 minute conversation about the 6th arm in Cubs bullpen.

Apr 17, 2012 12:45 PM
rating: 0
BP staff member Matt Kory
BP staff

Thanks, I'm glad you enjoyed reading it.

Apr 17, 2012 14:11 PM
Shaun P.

Matt, this was really funny, but oh so true - even for teams that have impact signings.

I also can't wait to see the Glossary entry for TAv updated to:

Excellent – Miguel Cabrera .342
Great – Alex Rodriguez .300
Average – Austin Jackson .260
Bleeeeeeeaaaah - Scott Podsednik - .251
Uuughhh - Juan Pierre .250
Poor – Ronny Cedeno .228
Horrendous – Brandon Wood .192

Truly, 'tis a fine line between bleeeeeeeaaaah and uuughhh, but those two straddle it.

Apr 17, 2012 16:01 PM
rating: 0
You must be a Premium subscriber to post a comment.
Not a subscriber? Sign up today!
<< Previous Article
Bizball: Why the Seatt... (04/16)
<< Previous Column
Premium Article Out of Left Field: How... (04/09)
Next Column >>
Out of Left Field: Des... (04/23)
Next Article >>
Premium Article Prospectus Hit and Run... (04/16)

Premium Article The Prospectus Hit List: Friday, May 29
Premium Article Minor League Update: Games of Thursday, May ...
Fantasy Rounders: San Diego's Marine Player
Premium Article Rubbing Mud: Context is King
Premium Article Daisy Cutter: How the Kipnis Got His TAv
Premium Article What You Need to Know: Another Day, Another ...
Premium Article Release Points: Where Have You Gone, Stephen...

Overthinking It: Man in the Box
Premium Article Prospectus Hit and Run: Land of 1,000 Runs
Bizball: Why the Seattle Mariners Could Be S...
Fantasy Article Resident Fantasy Genius: Not Time to Panic O...
Premium Article The Prospectus Hit List: April 16, 2012
Premium Article Collateral Damage Daily: Monday, April 16
What You Need to Know: Monday, April 16

2012-04-19 - Premium Article The Prospectus Hit List: Thursday, April 19
2012-04-18 - Premium Article The Prospectus Hit List: Wednesday, April 18
2012-04-17 - Premium Article The Prospectus Hit List: April 17, 2012
2012-04-16 - Premium Article Out of Left Field: The Worst Baseball Discus...
2012-04-16 - Premium Article The Prospectus Hit List: April 16, 2012
2012-04-13 - Premium Article The Prospectus Hit List: April 13, 2012
2012-04-12 - Premium Article The Prospectus Hit List: April 12, 2012

2012-05-07 - Out of Left Field: Scouting the Scout
2012-04-30 - Premium Article Out of Left Field: The Walking Dead
2012-04-23 - Out of Left Field: Designing a Nervous Break...
2012-04-16 - Premium Article Out of Left Field: The Worst Baseball Discus...
2012-04-09 - Premium Article Out of Left Field: How to Stop a Baseball Ga...
2012-04-02 - Premium Article Out of Left Field: Predictions That, God Hel...
2012-03-27 - Premium Article Out of Left Field: Spring Training With No S...

2012-11-20 - Premium Article Out of Left Field: Fish Out Of Contention